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Aurora Aquatica
- Thread starter Wisey
- Start date
Wisey
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- 19 Jul 2014
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So today has been a bit of a disappointing day. As you could see yesterday, my MC was not in a good way. I did my 50% water change before lights on this morning, then set the CO2 to a new level when it started at 15:00 today. I dropped it down a little as yesterday I was at yellow about an hour after lights off. I had upped it during the photoperiod as it had not gone green by lights on. Today, 3.5 hours after lights on my drop checker is only just starting to go green and its not even the right green yet, its a dark bluish green, I have therefore increased my CO2 just now to try and get enough in to the aquarium. There is no fauna in there, so I guess I should just overdose for now and try and get the plants back on track. It would seem that when I have come home during the week and seen a green drop checker and hoped all was going well, it was not going green early enough. Being here at the weekend I can see that the CO2 is not getting up to the right level when the lights come on.
I guess that is why some of my plants have suffered, it is the ones that require more CO2 that have had problems it seems. My MC was in a really poor state, so I have had to remove most of that. The two clumps closest to the front glass were not too bad, so have retained those. I also managed to pick out some individual plantlets that looked like newer healthy growth and have replanted those around the clumps. Hopefully I can keep the rest of this alive and it will fill in with some time. One of the clumps of alternanthera reineckii was totally melted, so I pulled that out too. The rest are not in too bad shape I hope, so fingers crossed.
After seeing my stems with new growth the other day I was encouraged that they were ok behind the wood, but some of them look to be melting now. I'm not sure how one can look perfect and the one that is an inch away is melting, surely they are getting the same light, CO2 and ferts in the same place? As yet I have not pulled any of the stems out, I'm hoping I can recover those as they are not as bad. I do still have 4 clumps of the stems in a little propagator, so could always transfer those in at a later date if I need to fill in any gaps from ones that don't make it.
My lower CO2 type plants look good, the anubias is putting out new leaves all the time, there is also new growth on the crypts. The ranunculous looks really good, well, one area does, its right near the front glass so must get lots more CO2, that is going really well. The two groups further back are ok, just growing slower, but not melting.
I'll post a phone pic of what is left of my MC in a minute
I guess that is why some of my plants have suffered, it is the ones that require more CO2 that have had problems it seems. My MC was in a really poor state, so I have had to remove most of that. The two clumps closest to the front glass were not too bad, so have retained those. I also managed to pick out some individual plantlets that looked like newer healthy growth and have replanted those around the clumps. Hopefully I can keep the rest of this alive and it will fill in with some time. One of the clumps of alternanthera reineckii was totally melted, so I pulled that out too. The rest are not in too bad shape I hope, so fingers crossed.
After seeing my stems with new growth the other day I was encouraged that they were ok behind the wood, but some of them look to be melting now. I'm not sure how one can look perfect and the one that is an inch away is melting, surely they are getting the same light, CO2 and ferts in the same place? As yet I have not pulled any of the stems out, I'm hoping I can recover those as they are not as bad. I do still have 4 clumps of the stems in a little propagator, so could always transfer those in at a later date if I need to fill in any gaps from ones that don't make it.
My lower CO2 type plants look good, the anubias is putting out new leaves all the time, there is also new growth on the crypts. The ranunculous looks really good, well, one area does, its right near the front glass so must get lots more CO2, that is going really well. The two groups further back are ok, just growing slower, but not melting.
I'll post a phone pic of what is left of my MC in a minute
Wisey
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Tonight I had to do something about my Alternanthera and my stems behind the wood. I pulled out each group of stems, removed the melted stems and then planted the good stems as individual stems rather than groups. I have 10 good stems around there, so hoping that I can keep these ones alive with more CO2. I removed the bottom leaves and planted deeper in to the substrate.
With the Alternanthera, again I removed all the clumps, removed the melted leaves and stems, then rather than replant as groups, I separated each stem and replanted them all as individual stems. They are over a larger area now and each stem should have good flow. They are right a the front with good flow already, so hoping that not having them in groups will give them a better chance to grow. Fingers crossed.
After all the uprooting and planting, it was cloudy. I netted out as much dead plant material as possible, then I have just completed a large water change, around 70%. Things are much clearer now and I have cranked up the CO2 again to get things going.
If I am doing anything stupid, please tell me, but I have had no input from anyone since these problems started, so I'm pretty much guessing what the best way forward is.
I may order an Eheim Skim 350 and use it to not only skim the film off, but to push water around behind the bogwood and try to get better flow to my stem plants. Would that be a good idea? Will it be a problem if it is next to my inlet pipe and pushing in the opposite direction? I don't really want to place it at the other side of the aquarium as it is then on the side that is often viewed as you enter the room.
With the Alternanthera, again I removed all the clumps, removed the melted leaves and stems, then rather than replant as groups, I separated each stem and replanted them all as individual stems. They are over a larger area now and each stem should have good flow. They are right a the front with good flow already, so hoping that not having them in groups will give them a better chance to grow. Fingers crossed.
After all the uprooting and planting, it was cloudy. I netted out as much dead plant material as possible, then I have just completed a large water change, around 70%. Things are much clearer now and I have cranked up the CO2 again to get things going.
If I am doing anything stupid, please tell me, but I have had no input from anyone since these problems started, so I'm pretty much guessing what the best way forward is.
I may order an Eheim Skim 350 and use it to not only skim the film off, but to push water around behind the bogwood and try to get better flow to my stem plants. Would that be a good idea? Will it be a problem if it is next to my inlet pipe and pushing in the opposite direction? I don't really want to place it at the other side of the aquarium as it is then on the side that is often viewed as you enter the room.
5678
Member
I'm no expert, but can you list out your light period and co2 levels at various times (use a ph pen?)
I was seeing similar melting when my co2 was not up enough during the light period as it sounds yours is.
I was seeing similar melting when my co2 was not up enough during the light period as it sounds yours is.
Wisey
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My lights are on for 5 hours, my CO2 comes on 2 hours before lights on and goes off 1 hour before lights off. I'm fairly sure it is a CO2 issue, but I don't have a PH pen to do proper profile yet. The drop checker is so slow to respond and with me now being back at work, it is impossible to see what state it is in at lights on. I turned up the CO2 last night, when I went to bed it was almost yellow. When I got up this morning, the lower drop checker at the back was blue, the one at the surface was still almost yellow. When I got home tonight at around 18:00 (an hour after lights on, 3 hours after CO2 on) both my drop checkers were green. I have upped the CO2 even higher this evening, the bubble rate is way beyond anything I could possible count now. I can understand why the stems at the back would melt if there was a lack of CO2 due to the flow, but I don't understand why one stem melts and the one that is an inch away looks perfectly healthy? The same with the Alternanthera, it was all in pretty much the same area, the piece at the left of the group nearest my MC melted while the rest looked ok, then once I remove that, the next piece over melts the following day. If the whole lot went, I would understand it, I don't understand why two clumps of the same plant within an inch of each other display completely different behaviour. I'm just going to leave the CO2 on at the ridiculously high level now and see if I can at least keep the plants alive. My intention was to buy a PH pen at some point but a decent one is expensive, the cheap ones are not reliable.
5678
Member
Light intensity for those 5 hours?
With that big bit of wood flow might be an issue? The plants at the back may not get a good dose of co2. I've just ordered a small hydor pump to use to rule out circulation issues.
What angle is your spraybar pointed at?
With that big bit of wood flow might be an issue? The plants at the back may not get a good dose of co2. I've just ordered a small hydor pump to use to rule out circulation issues.
What angle is your spraybar pointed at?
Wisey
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I know these TMC tiles are pretty bright, so I thought I was being careful and I am only running it at 20% at the moment. My spray bar is pretty much pointing directly to the front. I did have it a little higher, but was advised to lower it while there is no fauna in there to keep as much CO2 in during the photoperiod as possible. There is a very slight surface ripple, but not much. It is since I lowered it that I have had the surface film become more apparent. This morning my lower DC behind the wood was blue, but my surface level one at the front was still lime green. It would appear that the CO2 moves up to the top of the tank overnight, but maybe it is not being degassed due to the surface film.
The wood may well be causing an issue with flow which is why I put a DC behind there to see what my CO2 levels were like. They are lower than the surface one, but then that is not unusual. That DC still goes green during the photoperiod, I just don't think it is going green early enough at the moment. I have increased the amount of CO2 going in for today, but I suspect this evening my DC will go yellow due to the quantity of CO2. I think I may change to having the CO2 come on 3 hours before lights on to give it a better chance of being green at the start of the photoperiod.
I'm sure the tank would benefit from better flow behind the wood, it is a question of how I achieve that. The spray bar seems to be much more powerful at the end which is closed rather than the end where the water comes in from the filter, I therefore get my jets spraying at a slight angle towards the left hand side. They don't quite hit the front of tank, but they go a good 3/4 of the way across the tank and I can see the circular flow that I would expect. All the plants are moving in the flow at the front, I can also see my Ranunculous and Crypts behind the wood at the left hand side moving in the flow. The Echinodorus at the right side moves in the flow to some extent, but is still very small and compact and close to the substrate. My filter inlet is also behind the wood, which I hoped would create some additional flow by drawing water along the back of the wood, but it could just be taking water straight from the filter flow down that side. When some plant leaves were floating around inside the tank, or when I watch the CO2 bubbles, I can see that flow does go around the back of the wood, it is just not as vigorous as it is at the front of the tank.
My stems behind the wood are Limnophila hippuridoides. According to the Tropica website, although classed as a medium difficulty, they are listed as having a low CO2 requirement, but Medium light demand. I therefore hoped that with the low CO2 requirement, they would get what they needed behind the wood even though the flow was lower. The fact that my Monte Carlo and Alternanthera also melted and they are right at the front in the highest flow I guess demonstrates that I am just not getting the CO2 up to the right level in the entire tank, rather than it just being a flow issue behind the wood.
My Hydrocotyle tripartita is planted towards the front in a row up the right hand side and I am hoping that fills in around the wood. This plant has had all the original leaves die back, but new submersed growth has come through on all 4 groups that I planted and it is looking like it is going to do well. It really does move in the flow though, so I guess along that side it is getting good flow. One thing that is very noticeable is how differently the Ranunculus papulentus is doing in different areas of the tank. The best group is at the front and can be seen in the pictures above, it has more than doubled in height in a week, it really shot up! In the picture of the stems above, you can see in the background that there is some more Ranunculus papulentus at the far side which sits just behind the wood. This should in theory get a lot less flow and CO2, it has also grown well and now sticks up above the wood, but has not grown as much as the one at the front. There is another group just behind the MC which is out in the better flow at the side and this has hardly increased in height. It is not melting, it is just not growing as quickly, which seems strange compared to the group which is about 3 inches away which you would expect to get less CO2. Anyway, it is alive, so I am not worrying about that.
I'm seriously considering getting the Eheim Skim 350 and placing this at the back right corner behind the filter inflow pipe. That should then take water and push it along the back behind the wood, although it may sit too high to get flow at substrate level, it should be taking CO2 rich water from the surface near the filter level and improving flow behind the wood. The other alternative would be a small nano powerhead which I could put lower down which would be taking water from the flow down the right hand side and pushing it along the back more. Maybe I'll do both, but I think I will start with the skimmer for now as I would like to get rid of the surface film.
The wood may well be causing an issue with flow which is why I put a DC behind there to see what my CO2 levels were like. They are lower than the surface one, but then that is not unusual. That DC still goes green during the photoperiod, I just don't think it is going green early enough at the moment. I have increased the amount of CO2 going in for today, but I suspect this evening my DC will go yellow due to the quantity of CO2. I think I may change to having the CO2 come on 3 hours before lights on to give it a better chance of being green at the start of the photoperiod.
I'm sure the tank would benefit from better flow behind the wood, it is a question of how I achieve that. The spray bar seems to be much more powerful at the end which is closed rather than the end where the water comes in from the filter, I therefore get my jets spraying at a slight angle towards the left hand side. They don't quite hit the front of tank, but they go a good 3/4 of the way across the tank and I can see the circular flow that I would expect. All the plants are moving in the flow at the front, I can also see my Ranunculous and Crypts behind the wood at the left hand side moving in the flow. The Echinodorus at the right side moves in the flow to some extent, but is still very small and compact and close to the substrate. My filter inlet is also behind the wood, which I hoped would create some additional flow by drawing water along the back of the wood, but it could just be taking water straight from the filter flow down that side. When some plant leaves were floating around inside the tank, or when I watch the CO2 bubbles, I can see that flow does go around the back of the wood, it is just not as vigorous as it is at the front of the tank.
My stems behind the wood are Limnophila hippuridoides. According to the Tropica website, although classed as a medium difficulty, they are listed as having a low CO2 requirement, but Medium light demand. I therefore hoped that with the low CO2 requirement, they would get what they needed behind the wood even though the flow was lower. The fact that my Monte Carlo and Alternanthera also melted and they are right at the front in the highest flow I guess demonstrates that I am just not getting the CO2 up to the right level in the entire tank, rather than it just being a flow issue behind the wood.
My Hydrocotyle tripartita is planted towards the front in a row up the right hand side and I am hoping that fills in around the wood. This plant has had all the original leaves die back, but new submersed growth has come through on all 4 groups that I planted and it is looking like it is going to do well. It really does move in the flow though, so I guess along that side it is getting good flow. One thing that is very noticeable is how differently the Ranunculus papulentus is doing in different areas of the tank. The best group is at the front and can be seen in the pictures above, it has more than doubled in height in a week, it really shot up! In the picture of the stems above, you can see in the background that there is some more Ranunculus papulentus at the far side which sits just behind the wood. This should in theory get a lot less flow and CO2, it has also grown well and now sticks up above the wood, but has not grown as much as the one at the front. There is another group just behind the MC which is out in the better flow at the side and this has hardly increased in height. It is not melting, it is just not growing as quickly, which seems strange compared to the group which is about 3 inches away which you would expect to get less CO2. Anyway, it is alive, so I am not worrying about that.
I'm seriously considering getting the Eheim Skim 350 and placing this at the back right corner behind the filter inflow pipe. That should then take water and push it along the back behind the wood, although it may sit too high to get flow at substrate level, it should be taking CO2 rich water from the surface near the filter level and improving flow behind the wood. The other alternative would be a small nano powerhead which I could put lower down which would be taking water from the flow down the right hand side and pushing it along the back more. Maybe I'll do both, but I think I will start with the skimmer for now as I would like to get rid of the surface film.
5678
Member
Which one? I've been looking at the inlet surface skimmers.
Have one of these arriving today too http://www.charterhouse-aquatics.co....html?osCsid=e2e2a889eaf14ecd9cc3f2a05f2542df
Have one of these arriving today too http://www.charterhouse-aquatics.co....html?osCsid=e2e2a889eaf14ecd9cc3f2a05f2542df
Wisey
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I ordered the Eheim as have read good comments about it on this site:
https://www.eheim.com/en_GB/products/accessories/cleaning/surface_skimmer_skim350
In a perfect world I would have a nice glass inlet pipe with a skimmer, but that won't help with flow, so the Eheim kills two birds with one stone, removes the surfact film and will give me an additional 350 lph flow behind my bogwood.
Those little Pico pumps look good. I may well add one of those underneath the skimmer to push more water behind the bogwood closer to the substrate level, but will see how I go with the skimmer first.
https://www.eheim.com/en_GB/products/accessories/cleaning/surface_skimmer_skim350
In a perfect world I would have a nice glass inlet pipe with a skimmer, but that won't help with flow, so the Eheim kills two birds with one stone, removes the surfact film and will give me an additional 350 lph flow behind my bogwood.
Those little Pico pumps look good. I may well add one of those underneath the skimmer to push more water behind the bogwood closer to the substrate level, but will see how I go with the skimmer first.
Wisey
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The joy of the plastic Eheim spraybar is I could shorten it and fit it on the side, so that may well be an option although my concern would be that if its not hitting the front glass from 45 cm, it will be even worse trying to go down the full length of the tank, so I could then have problems with my higher CO2 carpet plants at the front.
My filter has 4 media baskets, currently the top 2 baskets are empty. The bottom basket has pan scrubbers in it, I put in a lot though, like 2 packets which is probably 18 pan scrubbers, all on end, so they are acting like a thick piece of coarse foam. The second basket has alfagrog in it, the basket is not jammed full, enough I hope to build a bacteria colony, but not so much that its overloaded. Have I maybe used too many pan scrubbers? I guess I could improve flow by taking some out, but I do want some form of mechanical filtration in there.
On my return from the filter I have the Up Inline atomizer and an eheim double tap, so that will restrict some flow, but I have the pipes as short as possible. There is also a double tap set on the inflow pipe, but again the pipe is short. That double tap set lets me tap in to the inflow pipe with another tap and length of pipe to setup a fast syphon without sucking on a tube for water changes. I then swap the hose round to the opposite end, connect to the other tap on the filter side and switch the filter back on which pumps my fresh water from the container in to the aquarium. It makes water changes super easy, so I am reluctant to remove the taps.
moroland
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- 23 Aug 2014
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Good point but circulation pump may help
You can try only with one basket pan scrubbers let say 12 and see how flow looks like then
As i remember you don't have any shrimps or fish in tank you can set up co2 for 24/7 2 bpm and see if it is help
Wisey
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Removing the timer may well be the way forward, run the CO2 24 hours a day, at least for now without any fauna in there. I just want to keep my plants alive and get them established! I have another spare FE waiting in the wings and have just dropped a mail to the company I got these first two from to see if they have any more. They only charged me £5 each for the first two, so if they can keep me supplied (which I am not sure about long term), then I don't mind if I end up using a lot more.
