Wits end with vallis..... Please help

[Tim Harrison]

Well you can only give dosing a try, it may work, but if it doesn't at least you can rule it out. I'd go with a complete macro/micro solution. And get some more vallis.

 

[fz1ben]

I've got some aqua essentials neutro plus I used on a high tech tank. Would you cut the dosage due to the low light and no c02?

 

[James O]

With those two filters I think the simplest thing, before you start adding things, would be to change your water changes and reduce your light intensity.

Reduce it to 100l per week (or 220l every other week) and let the fish poop work its magic

Your tank could well be too clean

 

[fz1ben]

I did think this could be a issue james, the water runs through a nitrate filter first too, the level in the tank is 5-10 maybe if the test kit can be believed. Not sure I'd be willing to cut down the changes I think dosing might be a better option. Still confused over the lights some people say there really powerful others say there too weak........ compared to my kessils on my reef tank there pretty crap but I thought they'd be plenty to grow some vallis

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Nutrient deficiency is my bet too

the water runs through a nitrate filter first too, the level in the tank is 5-10 maybe if the test kit can be believed.

I agree with Troi, and think that is probably the answer, you can't believe the test kit and you don't have any nitrate. Most nutrient deficiencies are either nitrogen (N) or potassium (K).

If you have plants you don't need the nitrate filter, nitrate levels will go down, rather than up, over time. At the moment the BBA is your "plant", I don't see it as a bad thing, but it doesn't grow very quickly and it is quite difficult to harvest. If you want some more plant mass Ceratophyllum and Pistia are both native to Lake Tanganyika and could be used with Cyprichromis etc. I like Ceratophyllum as a sub-surface floater. I've got a lot spare of both if you want to go down that route.

Also ignore what people tell you on cichlid keeping forums about plants (unless its me), for whatever reason a lot of Rift lake cichlid keepers are pathologically ill disposed towards plants.

Disconnect the chemical filtration, and after a couple of weeks if the plants still don't perk up I'd try feeding again at a low level with a complete mix from one of our sponsors, you can use 1/10th EI or the "Duckweed index".

Both Cryptocoryne balansae and Vallisneria are plants from hard water, so micro-element deficiencies are more unlikely.

One of the plants needs nesting back into the substrate a little.

Same for me. I would stick the light right over the top of the plants, and additionally plant them much more deeply in the substrate. Vallisneria propagates via runners from the growing point at the base of the leaves, and this really needs to be below the substrate.

cheers Darrel

 

[Martin in Holland]

Another easy way to dose nutrients direct to your plants is with miracle grow pellets. Just take an ice-cube tray poor in a few pellets per compartment poor a little water on top (just enough to get them to stick together later), freezzzz it and foila, you have nutrient tabs...maybe not the nicest to look at but they do the trick of being able to push them into the substrate.

 

[Chris Jackson]

I'm in the lack of nutrient camp, leaves melting and turning yellow means starvation... I too have pretty much given up on Valis because of how it took over my tanks. Valis will be happy in high or low light as long as it has enough nutrients. My suggestion would be to get some fresh bunches and plant those more densely along with some root tabs as you have a nutrient poor sand/gravel substrate (I like the ice cube tray idea...) . Dense planting will multiply more quickly and well Valis seems happier in a crowd.. Additional CO2 can only help but it isn't essential in my experience. Smaller more frequent water changes will add CO2 steadily from the tap.

You can only experiment with the lighting levels but high light means high demands for photosynthesis which then means high demands for nutrients and co2 and opens up a whole world of challenges. Light is primary the driver of growth and slow and steady is way way easier to manage than rampant so try dialing it down to a minimum level that is pleasing to you and take it from there.

 

[fz1ben]

Thanks for the detailed reply Darrell

The fish I keep are mainly wild caughts so I keep the nitrate as low as I can.I understand the plants need for it too I just thought the fish/filter would produce enough for the plants to use.

I'd happily take some plants off your hands that's very kind of you

I've moved the lights directly above the two areas of planting and running them at 50%

I was under the impression not to bury the vallis too deep....... I thought if the crown was under the substrate they would struggle?

The bba algae on the rocks doesn't really worry me, I think kept in check a little it looks quite natural.One theory I had is that maybe the bba was stripping the nutrients from the water but not sure if that would make that much difference?

 

[fz1ben]

Thanks chris

The small water changes wouldn't add any co2 as I keep 250/300 l of water ready at all times so the co2 would of out gassed long before the water change.This is mainly for the fishes need for high ph clean stable water. I've added some all in one ferts ill try and slowly raise the nitrate levels and see where that takes me. I'll add some new vallis when I can find somewhere that doesn't keep fish in their plant systems. ......

 

[xim]

I've moved the lights directly above the two areas of planting and running them at 50%

That's a good move, because your tank is big. The side walls are too far away to help give the reflection.
And the big rocks just block the reflection from the front wall.

I was under the impression not to bury the vallis too deep....... I thought if the crown was under the substrate they would struggle?

To give the best chance for it to grow. It's best to half-burry the crown. The green dashed line is substrate level.
This gives the plant stability against water current or when animal runs into it. The leaves could sway in water current but the crown should not.

(I added the green line to the Tropica's original image)

When the crown is buried too deep, IME, the new leaves seems to have problem squeezing through the centre of the crown.

Anyway, when they shoot runners. Some will grow above the substrate. It's not the best position. But with the support from the mother plant, it should be okay, like in the picture. If it's too far from the substrate, you could help it by pushing it down.

 

[Chris Jackson]

Thanks chris

The small water changes wouldn't add any co2 as I keep 250/300 l of water ready at all times so the co2 would of out gassed long before the water change.This is mainly for the fishes need for high ph clean stable water. I've added some all in one ferts ill try and slowly raise the nitrate levels and see where that takes me. I'll add some new vallis when I can find somewhere that doesn't keep fish in their plant systems. ......

Ah I see..lucky fishes!

so just a word of caution with the ferts you need to be aware that plants take time so be patient as it may take days before you really notice the initial effects especially if you're resuscitating struggling plants.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I'd happily take some plants off your hands that's very kind of you

PM me your address. You can have as much as you like of both for p&p.

cheers Darrel

 

[fz1ben]

Right guys thanks for all your help

I've planted a load more vallis, moved the lights directly above the plants and I'm going to start dosing 5ml a day of neutro plus. I've also turned the lights down to 50% (a little worried about this) and ill see how I get on.

Cheers