Aurora Aquatica

[Wisey]

The Alternanthera is still looking pretty poor, lets the whole thing down in my opinion. I have upped the light again today, still at 60% with the tile 30cm from the surface, but duration increased to 7 from 6.5 hours. Will see how things go this week, but tempted to strip out the Alternanthera and replace with something else in the next few weeks.

 

[BruceF]

Tank looks great.

I’ve been growing the alternanthera mini since last May it had poor color and seemed to struggle for months. Then I cut back on my dosing, especially the phosphates and now I am getting much better growth and color. I am not really sure if it was the phosphates or the reduction of N or what as I don’t ever test anything. FWIW

 

[Wisey]

Thanks for the input Bruce. Certainly something to consider, but I'm concerned about reducing dosing when most things are happy just now.

Does anyone know what is causing the leaf damage in my Hygrophila? Is this fish or CO2 or something else please?

 

[Wisey]

I realise those phone pics really don't come out very well on here, they look better smaller on the phone. That first one looks like algae in the pic here, but in reality looks more like microscopic holes in the leaf. I also have bigger holes as per the second picture and a few ends of leaves that are totally missing. It's all on the newest growth on the top of the Hygrophila, everything else seems to be ok. That is the tallest plant, so does get more light than the rest, so could well be a light vs CO2 issue or something?

The Kribensis babies have all gone, numbers were reducing day by day and then when they got down to about 10-15 left, the parents just stopped bothering to defend them and kept leaving them out and about on their own. I suspect that the last remaining Odessa Barb has had his fill. Either that or I am going to find them all in the filter next time I do maintenance!

I sent MA a message via Facebook about the Kribs last night and they have been really good about it. I guess its only fair seeing as they told me that they would be fine in a tank my size, but they have offered to take them back and give me something else of equal value or a credit note, so that is really good service as I suspect many shops would just refuse. I'm going to take them back at the weekend, assuming I can catch them, and hopefully get some Corys. I don't feel too bad about this seeing as they have no babies left now, its been fun to have them for a few weeks, but hopefully they can move on to a bigger home where they don't feel the need to dominate the entire tank to keep the fry safe.

Their return will leave me without my feature fish, so will need to think again about that. I am also down to a single Odessa Barb, so either need to get more of those once the cover arrives, or maybe consider something different, I'm undecided. I'm tempted to try something else, purely for the experience of having some different fish, although conscious that leaves the one guy on his own. I still have my 19 Ember Tetras and 8 Ottos, they are all doing fine.

 

[alto]

Tank is growing in nicely

Does new growth on the Hygrophila S that is closer to the substrate also show this damage?
- if you trim the longest stems & replant at substrate, & new leafs show same damage, i's unlikely to be physical closeness to the light source as main cause
- have you played with your EI dosing? I don't recall how hard /soft your water is or pH (these values impact bioavailability of nutrients)
- you can try increasing/adjusting CO2 (but monitor fish)
- you can try supplementing with a commercial fertilizer for a few weeks

I agree that it's good of MA to offer credit equal to the value you paid for the fish (often shops will only give a reduced credit)
(OTOH your kribs are acting ... well ... like kribs ... sometimes they are less dominating of the tank when spawning, but that is less common than the behavior you're seeing)



Some alternate fish might be:

Dicrossus filamentosus these fish often appear as dull grey fish in the shops, but really shine in planted tanks, unless you happen to find sub-adult fish, you'd need to buy in several to select male/female - in a 60 x 45 x 45, I'd likely try 5 or so to start with, they really are quite social fish & you might even be able to maintain this number longterm. Note that D maculatus has a somewhat different reputation

Mikrogeophagus ramirezi these fish are highly line bred so finding resilient specimens can be challenging ... I picked up one group of electric blues that all died (shop offered a full credit, they'd had massive losses as well - interestingly, fish were fine for nearly 2 weeks, then the die-off began, only significant symptom was rapid respiration ... which these fish are prone to when stressed anyway, as "disease" progresses it becomes apparent it is disease & not stress), second group has been fine.
I'd been looking for nice rams for several months but shop offerings were balloon types (in all colors), massive "blue rams" that I can't decide whether it's hormones or hybrids (shape is all wrong!), or very nicely conformed electric blues ... I finally went with the blues.
They really are lovely fish & while they do that ram dance of 'aggression' it's very mild

Chocolate gourami - again you want to get a group of 8-10, look for a source that knows these fish - I find that once settled, they are really quite hardy (BUT again I have soft, acidic water so no effort for me in that regard), they have some really interesting behaviors but do seem to need a quite location - I see them much more out & about in the tank in the quiet corner than when I moved them to a more centrally located tank. At first they seemed to enjoy the larger tank (90cm x 45cm x 55cm vs 60 cm x 45cm x 55cm) but over several weeks became more retiring, I moved them back to their old (rescaped) tank & they settled in immediately ... a glance over at the tank always reveals fish, in the 90cm tank, a glance just revealed the empty glass box syndrome ... This group really is stunning, with purple & green iridescence in fins, striking contrast of chocolate & gold (fish in the profile photos are rather dull & not showing their colors)

Note that fish I've listed above, need to be the main focus, & other fish chosen to suit - all are less aggressive/slow eaters, so a rabid rasbora/tetra horde will be fat to bursting while these fish are just partway through their meal (I've not kept embers so no idea on their suitability).
Shrimp - adults in the tank are fine, I don't see many juveniles in tank, but pull them regularly out of the canister filter (Eheim) (I finally grew out the latest batch in a Spec 19 - I emptied this out recently & had 40-50 shrimp)

Dwarf Apisto's - most are more aggressive than the two I've listed but as always with fish YMMV ... spend time on the Apisto forums to get an idea of which species might do best in your setup
They are also generally harder on shrimp populations.

 

[Wisey]

Does new growth on the Hygrophila S that is closer to the substrate also show this damage?
- if you trim the longest stems & replant at substrate, & new leafs show same damage, i's unlikely to be physical closeness to the light source as main cause
- have you played with your EI dosing? I don't recall how hard /soft your water is or pH (these values impact bioavailability of nutrients)
- you can try increasing/adjusting CO2 (but monitor fish)
- you can try supplementing with a commercial fertilizer for a few weeks

I had a look lower down last night and there is a little damage on new growth lower down too, so I suspect it may well be fish damage. I'm blaming the Kribs, but may be proved wrong if it continues after they go back to the shop on Saturday. My dosing has not changed for ages, I'm still sort of doing EI, its EI levels, but with my dosing pump I spread the dose over the 7 days and dose macro at 17:00 and Micro at 05:00 each day. My water is very soft, I just use tap water treated with Prime and the water report says 2 German degrees. I don't do any water testing so have no more info. I'm finding leaves from plants in the mesh I put in the skimmer every day at the moment, mainly from the Alternanthera and I am pretty sure that is fish damage. The Kribs do tend to root around in the smaller plants, occasionally bring up bits of S. Repens too.

When the Kribs go back I intend to get myself some Corys, probably 8 Sterbai, to populate the lower levels of the tank. Thanks for your suggestions on fish, I have never been a big fan of Gouarmi but the chocolate ones do look nice. I never see them in the shops up here though, but MA might be able to order them if I ask. I popped in to MA last night to get a bag from them to return the Kribs in and was having a chat. Their next order is in 2 weeks and they say they have ordered quite a lot of different Apistos, so I think I will get the Corys this weekend, get them settled, then see what comes in on the next order.

 

[alto]

Sterbai are one of my favorite cory's - they are very active & will bustle around the tank at all levels

I'm not much for gourami's either except for the choco's, licorice gourami are also very interesting but need rather dimmer lighting to be out & about in the open - you can see them in ldcgroomer's Gourami Gloaming
I don't think I'd mix either with Apisto's .... I did have my choco's & electric blue rams in the same tank for ~6weeks (a rescaping project that dragged on), but both are just happier without the other.
Note the choco's won - they were just impervious to all the ram antics that work so well with other rams, also the choco's are very group oriented & will back each other up ... I find them very interesting for their behavior - which you don't get to see in shops or if you've only got a few.
I started with 10, lost 2 during the first couple weeks (picked them up from the shipping bags), shop had sold most & I wanted to replace the 2 I'd lost, as there only looked to be 4 in the tank, I decided to take them all ... which turned out to be another 8 - they are good at hiding! (shop gave me a good deal).
I had to treat this group as they were definitely under the weather (just decided to begin with formalin as external parasites respond well to meds & formalin is very effective though no longer in vogue at the hobby level) - they obviously felt better the next day, so treated intermittently over the next week. Added both groups together after another week or so - they immediately formed a single collective (as if they still all recognized each other). I've lost 4 to jumping - seems one decides to leave every few months.

Spend some time over at apistogramma,com - Mike Wise offers a very brief summation in the linked thread

 

[Wisey]

The polycarbonate cover I ordered arrived today. Warning, never buy anything from plasticsheets.com!

I paid £1.50 per corner to have a 20mm radius applied, thought it would look a little better. The radius is not accurate, just hand cut and an awful job made.

Emailed, no response, called, was told to email a pic and they would replace within 3 working days, really rude person on the phone though.

Found a link to their Facebook page and discovered loads of people with issues, crap quality, non delivery, ignored mails etc. I spent almost £30, I expect better quality than this. If I don't have a replacement by Monday I'm going to try and do a chargeback to recover the money through my credit card company.

 

[Andy D]

That's not good at all!

I thought for a minute you had used the same company I had (all of my covers have been very good - albeit all square cuts) as the web address was very similar:

https://www.cutplasticsheeting.co.uk

 

[Wisey]

They emailed and said they would ship a replacement, so let's see what turns up. If it's still crap I'll pursue getting my money back and try your place, Andy.

That's not good at all!

I thought for a minute you had used the same company I had (all of my covers have been very good - albeit all square cuts) as the web address was very similar:

https://www.cutplasticsheeting.co.uk

Tomorrow morning will be catch the Kribensis time, I feel it's going to be a bit of a challenge! Looking forward to getting the Corys though, fingers crossed they still have the Sterbai.

 

[Andy D]

I don't envy you that task. I hate having to catch fish in a planted tank. Especially if there is lots of decor getting in the way.

 

[Wisey]

I'm hoping they can be tricked into coming out in the open with food, didn't feed tonight, want them hungry in the morning! If I don't get them both in the first sweep I feel it could be a long process, they are hidey little things at the best of times.

 

[alto]

didn't feed tonight, want them hungry in the morning!

The best beginning

Now just make a fish "trap" - I used a rectangular orange juice bottle, with rubber bands to hold the inverted top in place: added a few bits of frozen brine shrimp to the tank, then a good bit placed in the bottle, leave the room for 30 - 60 min & come back to a bottle load of fish ... I'd be surprised if the Kribs can resist

Don't use too much food in the tank obviously (or the trap) as you still want the fish hungry in case you need a Round 2 - brine shrimp works well as it's very "aromatic" (& it's less filling than bloodworms), use whatever food you see the most excitement with..

 

[Wisey]

It actually went surprisingly well! I switched off the filter and the female Krib came straight out to investigate, net in, got her first try and in to the bag! The male was not quite so easy, but was encouraged out with some sinking pellets and caught relatively easily once in the open.

The Kribs are now returned and I have 8 Corys drip acclimating as I type. They had identical looking Corys in two tanks side by side, the one labelled Sterbai only had 3 left and the one next to it had loads but was labelled Agassizi. I looked at pics and I'm confident they are Sterbai and not Agassizi, I think it was probably 2 different batches from 2 different orders that were next to each other. If they do turn out to be Agassizi that's fine, but I'm sure it's Sterbai. I'll get some pics this evening if possible.

Another great thing about MA in Aberdeen, it's a Dobbies garden centre that has a cafe, so not only did I get Corys, I got a cooked breakfast too! Winning

 

[Wisey]

These are Cory Sterbai, right?

They chill out back or under the wood, but in the open they are so quick it's hard to get good phone pics.

 

[Crossocheilus]

Yep, those are definitely sterbai. I must say they are my favourite cory by far. The orange front edge of the pectoral fins is there main distinguishing feature along with the solid colouring of grey/white spots. I find most cories are just too pale, but these guys have strong patterning. Sorry if you have already thought of this but I notice a tablet/algae wafer in the pic (this may well not be intended for the cories) . I would recommend (unless you already know this) feeding them a fine granule food that will sink, as they much prefer these small mouthfuls to having to congregate on a single tablet.

The tank looks great btw, I envy the bushy growth of your alteranthera, mine is only just regrowing from the single stem that survived initial widespread melt

 

[Wisey]

It's been a while since the last update and there have been a few changes. The only bad news is that one of the Corys died within 48 hours, but the rest have all done fine. Thanks for the feeding advice, I'm giving them some pellets too, but have also switched to breaking the algae wafer in to lots of small pieces. Doing that and putting it on the sand with the filter off often results in 7 Corys and 8 Ottos all coming down together, the Ember Tetra even get involved.

The rest of the news is all plant related. The Ranunculous had been bothering me for a while, grows well, but wasn't positioned right and I had nowhere I liked to move it, so it's gone. As you will see from the FTS below the Hydrocotyle is going very well so as well as thinning it I'm training it round the front too. I like the open sand so you can see the big wood caves though.

The Anternanthera has been annoying me for ages, I pulled it out, trimmed the tops they were the redder parts and replanted some of them. I know I'm starting from day one, but one more go rather than just get rid. I dummy hold out high hopes, I'm already thinking about alternatives, maybe Pogostomon Helferi.

My Echinodorus Reni is still tiny, it puts out new leaves, they just never get as big as the ones pictured online such as the Tropica site. It's got Tropica substrate, plus a root tab every month, plus EI dosing. I know it's maybe a little cramped where it is, but it's not shaded at the moment so not sure why it's so small. Advice very welcome please, I may even start a thread in plants forum.

My Limnophila H. is not doing great, it was growing, I trimmed and replanted, it's had a few weeks to get going again but very little growth and stems in the centre that get less flow are melting at the base. I'm considering swapping it out with something else, maybe some bigger Echinodorus, but not sure yet.

 

[alto]

Good news on the Cory front - I must ask, though, what do your Sterbai do???

I had a group of 7, slowly lost them singly over several months until only a rather melancholy 2 remained, finally added in 3 more (excited little devils even in the Q tank) & now all five swim madly about the tank, bulldozing shrimp (or anyone else) that may be in their path.
I've just moved the 5 into the newly scaped 90cm (swapped out old substrate for Tropica soil) so only fish is a chocolate gourami whose repairing a badly split tail - oddly as soon as the oblivious Cory Gang arrived, that deep undercover choco emerged into the middle of the tank

Looking at your E 'Reni' it seems perhaps it's not getting enough light - or may just be off to a slow start - looking at the various Tropica layouts with this plant, it seems to alternate between quite tall (30cm height) or remaining quite short (15cm or so) ... as I recall Mr Teapot experienced some of this, finally removing it from Green Pekoe Pond (as the taller version).
Note that some root tabs can take ages to dissolve - can you check that they are not just still sitting there?

I'll miss the R inundatus but agree it wasn't the right place for it

The Limnophila hippuridoides also isn't doing much - look at shading from other plants, possible nutrient deficit (don't recall what you're dosing).

You might consider trying the Tropica branded fertilizers for a month & see if that makes a difference.

 

[alto]

I'm already thinking about alternatives, maybe Pogostomon Helferi.

I like the red the Alternanthera contributes, may be look at H 'Araguaia' which can be encouraged in more upright or more creeping growth

 

[Wisey]

Good news on the Cory front - I must ask, though, what do your Sterbai do???

My Corys tend to hang out round the back behind the bog wood, less flow and lots of shady spots to sit around the stems at the back. They do come out round the front too and are very active and happy to come out when there is food. My bogwood does have loads of caves underneath, so they tend to potter around under there too

Looking at your E 'Reni' it seems perhaps it's not getting enough light - or may just be off to a slow start - looking at the various Tropica layouts with this plant, it seems to alternate between quite tall (30cm height) or remaining quite short (15cm or so) ... as I recall Mr Teapot experienced some of this, finally removing it from Green Pekoe Pond (as the taller version).
Note that some root tabs can take ages to dissolve - can you check that they are not just still sitting there?

It could well be light, the Limnophila H. grew much higher at that side around it, so I uprooted all that and planted the taller parts in the middle and the short parts near the Reno to give it more light. It does not seem to have made much difference, it puts out a new leaf every few weeks, they just don't get very big. I have started a thread over in the plant forum just now so hopefully I'll get further feedback over there.

The Limnophila hippuridoides also isn't doing much - look at shading from other plants, possible nutrient deficit (don't recall what you're dosing).

I'm dosing EI levels, but I don't quite dose it as per the instructions as my TMC Easi-Dose pump allows 24 dosings every day but operates every day, cant set days off with it. I therefore added up how much my total weekly does with EI was for both Macro and Micro, divided the total by 7 and I then dose daily, Macro at 17:00 and Micro at 05:00. This does mean I lose some of a dose on Sunday when I do the water change, but its usually just the Micro which I don't tend to worry about. If I end up losing some of the 17:00 Macro does as I change the water later in the day, I always add extra Macro after the change to compensate for the loss.

There are a few other changes that I forgot to document in recent posts. I had added some Anubias Mini, but it did not take well, the leaves were quite yellow and some of them had some holes in. I'm not sure with the mini being so small that it did not like the amount of superglue on the rhizome, maybe it covered too much of it? It also didnt look natural in the places it would fit, so I took that out. I also moved one of the newer Anubias Nana pieces so all 3 plants are closer together making what I feel is a nicer grouping. I moved it further away from the Microsorum too, as that is now bouncing back well from its severe trim after the leaf damage.

After threatening the plastic sheet company with legal action, they didn't even bother to respond to the mail, but they did ship another sheet out to me and this time the corners had had the correct radius applied to them. I therefore now have a cover on the tank, its bowed very slightly already, but its not too bad. I don't really like it, but it does massively reduce evaporation and should stop the majority of future jumpers. There is an inch gap at the right hand side for the pipework, but it covers the rest of the tank.

I'm intending to have a good change around at the back of the tank. I gave the Hygrophila a trim yesterday, removing the largest stem completely and also another smaller stem, then replanting newer smaller side shoots back in to those gaps. It's not more compact and has some space to grow. That taller stem was probably blocking a lot of light from the shorter ones so hopefully they will grow up higher now as a group. I'm planning on removing the Limnophila H. as more and more stems are melting at the base and rather than replant, I'm just throwing them away now, I'm going to try something else. I'm just waiting on some further feedback for the Echinodorus Reni, either here or on the other thread before I decide whether that stays, goes, or moves. Once that's decided I will get a plant order placed.