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In search of substrate for 200x60x70 cm aquarium

Costa

Member
Joined
20 Oct 2016
Messages
354
Location
Athens, Greece
Hi folks,
First time poster, long time lurker.
I'm setting up my first big tank 2m in length and I've gotten some great aquaskape ideas off ukaps so thank you all.

I'm currently in the market for substrate. My aim is to have a nice garden of mid to advanced difficulty plants, and relatively low pH (the tank will house mostly characins and other peaceful S. American species). I will be needing ca. 130kg of substrate, and that's a hell of a lot of money considering that 9kg cost around £25 at best.

I'm looking for substrate ideas from individuals experienced in similar sized planted tanks. I've read the tutorials on the forum and tried the dirtied tank approach before (my experience was bad I'm afraid).

Just FYI I'm OK to spend money on the tank, but I want to cut through the marketing bs and just get something that works well for the long term. I'm not I'm a rush to get fish in, my aim is to have a solid ecosystem.

Thank you
Costa
 
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My aim is to have a nice garden of mid to advanced difficulty plants, and relatively low pH

Do you have planted tank experience (besides the dirt disappointment)?
Much simpler to practise in a 60cm tank than leaping into a 200cm.

Take some time to look at what others have done in large tanks, such as George Farmer's Custom eaReef 1200s - mixed media use means that rather less aquarium soil (such as Tropica etc) is needed while providing interest

If planning a "dirted" tank, I'd again look for examples of large tanks that you admire.

Re your comment on "low pH". I'd not fight local tap water conditions in such a large tank unless you're also investing in a house RO etc water treatment ... life is just so much simpler when using tap water

Sounds an impressive project :thumbup:
 
Thank you for the replies

My first (and currently my main tank) is a diy cube of 60x60x60. I tried the dirtied substrate approach with this tank and on day 3 the mangrove wood piece I had in the tank was covered by white fungus and the water smelled really bad. The tank was cleaned and fluval stratum was used which I've been very happy with for a year now, fully planted with Eleocharis grass, anubias and other medium-difficulty plants (DIY CO2 also supplied, ca 1-2 bps).

The cost of 20 stratum bags is substantial, which is why I'm open to suggestions.

Thank you for the link, I will surely read through the posts and will watch the videos.

Also thanks for the point on the pH; I want to try and maintain a relatively low GH and kH, ideally via a peat rich substrate, which is another reason why I am attracted to the idea of staying off the beaten path substrate-wise. But then again the action of peat progressively dies off and water changes become much more complex.

What I was initially thinking was 2-3mm lava gravel with some peat sphagnum (either mixed in the gravel or in bags underneath), would you think of this?

Thanks again and have a pleasant evening
 
I'm sure the white fungus wasn't due to the dirt substrate
Lots of wood develops white fungus on at when first submerged then it stops
Or take out just the wood
And when the wife, mum or other person whose in charge of the dishwasher goes out stick it in it for a long hot wash
Obviously no detergents


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Thanks again for the responses,

I am planning on buying a 5 or 7 kg CO2 tank and pair it with one of the sets sold at co2art or co2supermarket, but that's going to happen in the next 4-5 months (budget limitation).

How does CO2 affect the type and quality of substrate? Also, what's the best way to mix peat with lava or sand to ensure that I don't end up with a loose substrate?

Thanks
 
It depends what type of plants you want to grow.
If its just some low tech plants like crypts, anubias, etc...then all you need is a sand substrate. In a year or so the sand will have matured enough to grow plants really well and plants do grow well in sand. It's easy to plant as well and easy to clean.

In the mean time you can plant the plants in pots and shallow trays around the tank using a layer of soil and a cap. The soil you can get from the garden centre.

That's what I am doing in my latest tank to avoid the mess and to be able to actually replace the soil/pots, plants easier in time. In a large tank it gets hard in time when everything overgrows.
I plant my pots with hydroton clay pebbles at the bottom(to allow drainage), then a soil layer, then sand or small gravel on top to lock the soil. You can disguise the pots with some stones if you want. You can drill holes at the bottom of the pots.

The sand is best if its not too fine but not too big. Something like 0.6 to 1mm grain size will do. You may be able to find pool filter sand for cheap. Play sand is way too fine.
 
[QUOTE="Costa, post: 463092, member: 15534"
How does CO2 affect the type and quality of substrate?
Thanks[/QUOTE]
Well a decomposing substrate will produce a certain amount of C02 & that can help the plants but if you inject C02 then any inert substrate will be fine.
Of course you will get lots of opinions but if you use C02 & EI fertilisation there is no need to use any nutrients in the substrate.
However an open structure substrate like baked clay, cat litter etc will absorb the EI ferts & feed the roots as well.
 
It depends what type of plants you want to grow.
If its just some low tech plants like crypts, anubias, etc...then all you need is a sand substrate. In a year or so the sand will have matured enough to grow plants really well and plants do grow well in sand. It's easy to plant as well and easy to clean.

In the mean time you can plant the plants in pots and shallow trays around the tank using a layer of soil and a cap. The soil you can get from the garden centre.

That's what I am doing in my latest tank to avoid the mess and to be able to actually replace the soil/pots, plants easier in time. In a large tank it gets hard in time when everything overgrows.
I plant my pots with hydroton clay pebbles at the bottom(to allow drainage), then a soil layer, then sand or small gravel on top to lock the soil. You can disguise the pots with some stones if you want. You can drill holes at the bottom of the pots.

The sand is best if its not too fine but not too big. Something like 0.6 to 1mm grain size will do. You may be able to find pool filter sand for cheap. Play sand is way too fine.


Thank you for the message, this is a very good plan indeed.

Question:

Do you grow immersed or emersed? I'm asking because I read in the Plants section of UKAPS that people grow plants in jars (i.e. no holes at the bottom) and do water changes every day (or every other day at most).

To answer your question on the plants I have in mind, I am aiming towards a nice, thick carpet in the foreground (something like Eleocharis spp or ideally Cuba) and some Anubias and taller plants towards the back. I've seen some great plant ideas here in UKAPS and I'm just glad I have 2 x 0.6 meters to play with.

Bottom line is, there are so many interesting and rare plants and I sure as hell don't want my choice of substrate to be the limiting factor of what I can grow.

Thanks again all
 
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So after a lot of research and discussions (thanks UKAPS) I have concluded on this:
  1. Bottom thin layer (few mm) of fert powder (commercially available eg ADA or something like Miracle Grow fert), followed by
  2. 5-6cm/2-3" of substrate mix comprising of
    • Clay (laterite) 15%
    • Peat sphangum 25%
    • Top soil 60%
  3. 3cm/1-1.5" of fine gravel
One thing I don't know and I haven't been able to find the answer to is how long the peat water-softening effect will last for. I am planning to have a C & S American biotope (tetras & hatchetfish) and want to create as natural a water chemistry as possible (although admittedly all tetras in fish stores are kept in tap water). I will consider it a success if I manage to create an environment where my fishes will be happy to breed.

I am also considering dry starting the aquarium (DSM), what do you guys think?

Thanks again
Costa
 
  • Bottom thin layer (few mm) of fert powder (commercially available eg ADA or something like Miracle Grow fert), followed by
  • 5-6cm/2-3" of substrate mix comprising of
    • Clay (laterite) 15%
    • Peat sphangum 25%
    • Top soil 60%
  • 3cm/1-1.5" of fine gravel

This sounds trouble to me. The substrate is way too much, deep. You need a 2 inch substrate including the base and cap, whatever the individual components. I'd have the clay/peat/topsoil mix 1 inch max, then 1.5 inch gravel. More is not better or more sustainable, its the opposite
 
By trouble you mean anaerobic pockets forming up?

I'm just concerned about the net amount of base substrate available for root formation and by extension plant growth, this is why I consider a thiker base.

Also what would you think about DSM?

Thanks again
 
I'm just concerned about the net amount of base substrate available for root formation and by extension plant growth

You'll have no problem with root formation in a thinner substrate layer. The roots grow horizontally and the substrate is oxygenated easier, safer for the fish too and healthier for the plants. There is absolutely no need for deeper substrate in aquariums. If you do go with a deeper substrate, ensure there is plenty of oxygen to prevent killing stock/plants accidentally.
 
Tropica has run many planted tanks using the method shown in this video

Layout 97 by George Farmer
Substrate: Tropica substrate
Gravel: Råda sand 0,8-1,2 mm
CO2 & Water Column Fertilizers

Note how the gravel may still be banked - shown more clearly in this
Layout 95 by Grégoire Wolinski

I strongly recommend that you set up a trial 60cm tank with your substrate system & chosen fertilizer etc regime before embarking on the 200cm tank project... you don't mention any detail re tank dimensions, lighting etc - if you don't want to retain the 60cm, you could easily adapt lighting,filters etc intended for the 200cm in this project
 
Right, so you guys don't follow DSM at all, which is fair enough.

I don't have any more tanks :) I've got a 40L breeding tank for my tetras, a 130L 55cm cube which is my "main" tetras tank and now this 2 x 0.6 x 0.6 meter tank (700L/190USG gross) which is currently empty.

You are right about my omission to discuss about lights/CO2

CO2 - I was planning to buy a 5kg CO2 tank but then I read about DSM and at this point I am questioning how necessary CO2 injection would be after DSM (which I've never tried - my cube currently runs with diy CO2 and Fluval Stratum but overall plant growth blows)

Lights - Undecided. I was initially planning to set up a DIY hanging bar and fix 3 or 4 40W 6000K led floodlights on top of the tank. I want to have good lights but really can't afford the super expensive ones (I've seen some prices for leds that go over 1000 GBP)

Open to suggestions and feedback

Thanks
Costa
 
If you are going to inject CO2, why don't you try just a small amount. There is evidence to suggest that 10ppm is plenty sufficient and even optimal for most plants. Just do a trickle of it. I'd do it if I wanted to bother with more gear around tanks and refilling co2 bottles, especially more difficult in a large tank.

As for flood lights, I recently got one for the first time, same reason as yours...I didn't want to spend crazy money although between the gooseneck and the light itself, it was not cheap either. The plants responded pretty fast although right now I've got the typical low tech plants only. I am guessing long term it will work out as well as any other light based on my short experience. I'll be getting another one same flood light to bump the intensity a notch once I get more plants. The one I got is also pretty good looking and not obstructive. It's a slim line version. The only problem is they have wide angle so there will be some spillage but mine is over a round Rubbermaid pond and its pretty much utilized apart from some shimmering on the wall. Anyway, don't be put off by flood lights. Just research their specs first as they differ in quality.
 
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