Dymax Tropical 36 watt

[ceg4048]

Hi Zanguli,
Mate, that looks much better, although the picture is upside down. No worries, I just pointed my head at the ground.

Yes, you are right. At some point the flow velocity will be too high and this will do damage to the leaf. You don't want the leaf to look like the national flag on a pole during a storm. That would be too much. The idea is to see the leaves gently rocking.

Also, you really don't need special FX5 filter media. Just go the supermarket and get foam pot scrubbers or cleaning sponge and then chop them up in smaller pieces, like maybe 1 centimeter cubes. Do they have anything like this in Kinshasa supermarkets? Bacteria really do not care what kind of neighborhood they live in!

Cheers,

 

[zanguli-ya-zamba]

Thanks mate
Yes I can find these without any problem here in Kinshasa.
So I just cut it in small part of 1 cm and put it in the filter ? I don't need to put it in a net or some thing like that ?
I have to rescape the tank soon I am just waiting for new plants to arrive. I had order some crypts. Trying to have two low maintenance tank. I know I am bit lazy ahahha

And for the pic I don't understand why it s upside down because on my iPhone it s on the good position.

Mate thank you very much for all the advices you are giving me.
Hope one day I can help with something


Cheers

 

[ceg4048]

Yeah mate, help me to not go crazy up here! Send me some hot weather. It was snowing here two days ago!

You can put the chopped up scrubbers in a net if that makes it easier to handle. It really doesn't matter.

I think maybe the picture orientation depends on which way you are holding the phone.

Take some pictures of the supermarket with your iphone. I've never seen the inside of a Congolese supermarket...would be interesting to see what kind of products are there.

Cheers,

 

[zanguli-ya-zamba]

Here is some hot weather sorry that s the only thing I can do !! Hahaha don't be jealous lol

That was 3 days ago. But that s hot lol

I ll take a pic if the supermarket.
I have add some glosso and some ludwigia arcuata in the tank to see if with the new set up they will have enough co2 and flow. As we have a lot of them growing in a pond i can make an experience.

Cheers

 

[zanguli-ya-zamba]

Hi
Today I am receiving my up aqua (hope this one will not be faulty )
I am also receiving a second coralia nano 900L for better flow. So there will be two pump one on the left and one the right, and the spray bar in the middle.
I'll take a pic of the set up when it's done.
Clive you have told me that if my glosso or my HC is growing up ward it's because flow is not adequate. I have planted last week some glosso just under the co2 diffuser and where the flow is the strongest but its still growing upward.
I will also put a pic of ludwigia arcuata that is growing strangely.aybe you can told me why ??

Cheers and tonight I ll post everything

 

[ceg4048]

Hi zanguli,
Prune the HC and the new leaves should come in much more compact. The effects of the hormone lasts long. After a while, growth will be more compact.

Cheers,

 

[zanguli-ya-zamba]

Hello
Well I have received the up aqua and the new pump.
I have put everything.
First regarding the up aqua (the new one) to reach a good concentration I need to crank up the CO2 and I still have big bubbles, but a bit less.
But I didn't had the time to test it because since yesterday noon I ran out of CO2. I put it back tonight. Lights are off since than.

I don't really understand why I got this bubbles. Tomorrow I will make more test.
Just for the info the atomizer is on the outlet at 15 cm from the filter.

About the trimming on the HC, is it also working on the Glosso ?
Can you explain me deeper the effect of the hormones on growth please.

Regards

 

[ceg4048]

Hi Zanguli,
Yes the same trick works with Glosso. When you cut the stem the new leaves grow which better adapted to a water environment, so they can handle the stress better.

Hormones work by bonding to certain target proteins in the cell which changes the shape of the protein and so changes the way that the protein behaves. Many hormones enter the cells and combine with proteins to directly modify genetic instructions. There are a lot of instructions that can be given. Normally the instructions change to cause the production of a different type of enzyme or protein. The type of activity change in the plant is normally determined by the concentration of the hormone that is present. So the same hormone can cause different effects if the plant produces different quantities of hormone.

Ethylene is the only gas plant hormone.When secreted internally by plants at certain concentration levels it can cause fruit to ripen, for example. Other concentration levels can program some cells to die.

Plants are always producing ethylene, and the concentration buildup will vary to accomplish different goals. When the plant is flooded, if this gas does not diffuse away and escape from the plants as easily as it would when the plant was was in air then the concentration of the gas builds and this triggers the genetic reprogramming to elongate the stem.

Once the stem elongates it cannot reverse this to shrink the long stem. So if you cut the stem then new growth may be more compact depending on how much ethylene you managed t pull away with better flow. The new stems may have been still programed to elongate. So this is not a magic trick. When the flow/CO2 is improved, and when the last of the high hormone levels have dissipated, then normal stem length programming will resume.

Cheers,

 

[zanguli-ya-zamba]

Hi
Aaaah that's the kind of explanation I love, because you understand the "why".
Thanks for taking the time to explain me.
Now with I knowing that, I am wondering some thing.
When you receive new plants that are grown emerge HC for example, you plant it in your tank flooded. You should trim it right away or you have to wait for a week or (for the roots to start settle)???
Basically the effect of hormones is the "same" for all aquatic macrophite ? Sp it will occurred the same thing with all of them ?
For example I have received some eustralis stelatta should I trim it ? Same with ludwigia inclinata ?
For the crypts that are grown emerge should you plant it and cut all the leaves or I wait for the first submerge leave to appear than trim all the rest of leaves.
I know that this all noob question but with the explanation you give me about hormone and theirs effect on enzyme and protein I start to doubt a bit (every day is a learning day on ukaps that's why I love it). Maybe with the new scape and new set up of the (now the flow is perfect hope so) flow and distribution will be enough strong to evacuate the excess of gaz ?

I need another advice, I have receives also some staugoryne repens emerge form, what I have done it is cleaning each stem, take out the leaves at the base of the stem leaving 3 pairs of leaves, and I have plant it in the way that the first pair of leaves touch the substrate. Is it the good way ?
I know that the plants I have mention are very CO2 sensitive so this time I will try to not make mistakes with it lol.

Mate thanks you re a mine of information

Cheers

 

[ceg4048]

Hi Zanguli,
Well when you Flood HC it has a tendency to start melting unless the CO2 is excellent, so if you trim it then you run the risk of reducing your margin of error. Probably the best thing to do is to separate the bunch and plant the individual stems, but that is so time consuming and tedious that almost no one does that. I've only seen Mark Evans and maybe one or two other people with that level of patience. When the stems are separated like that there is better flow and CO2 for each stem. The next best thing is to divide the bunch into very small groups. Dry starting of course gives you a chance to grow more mass and to grow deeper roots, but again, most people are too impatient, and so they want to flood the tank immediately.

As I mentioned before, it's really not that big of a deal. If the HC is growing and staying green, then just leave it alone. When the stem grow vertically, then cut them and replant the stems somewhere else....if you have the patience. With time, and assuming you have fixed your flow/CO2, the plant settles and starts to grow more compact. HC needs to be trimmed regularly anyway.

The staugoryne can be planted that way as well. Just separate and plant individual stems. I don't think it even matters if you pull the bottom leaves off because that will make it less able to stay rooted for a while. Burying the stem with some leaves underneath might help to keep it in place. Just try different approaches ad see ho it works. You can also tie the staugoryne to rocks or wood, just like you would with moss and Anubias. They do fine with the roots exposed on hardscape.

Cheers,

 

[zanguli-ya-zamba]

Hello master lol
Thanks again for the explanation. Now I know how to proceed.
Or you do a dry start and be patient for two month (like George have been) or you flood your tank and have the perfect flow, distribution and just cross finger lol.
So I think I am on the good track, I have received 3 pots of HC and I have cut each pot in 6 portion hope that will enough small. There is just one pot that I have cut in 4 portion.
Here is a pic of 1/4 pots of HC 2 days after flooded. Now it's 4 days and they are pearling all day long. U know that pearling is not a relevant sign but I cross finger and will see if its ok during the next 3 weeks lol.
That's the only shot I will put for now because I am not satisfy of the result for now but I am sure that when all the cryp the staugoryne and the HC will be settle it will nice. I will start a journal in a month.

That's a good thing what you are telling me about the staugoryne growing on hardscape didn't knew that. And it s giving me idea for the next scape. Even if I miss the shot with it in this scape, because that plant is a bit tricky I have a base in our pond.

Well mate thanks again we keep in touch

Cheers

 

[zanguli-ya-zamba]

I totally forgot to tell something important (for me), the new atomizer is working well. After 5 days running I am only getting small amount of big bubble and a nice mist.
Now my Ph (initial ph 7,3 water rest for a night) is 5,82 (read with Hanna ph meter calibration at two point). I know that I have good result at 5,75 so I am in the good track.

I wanted to buy a PAR netter to start better management of light, but it's a bit expensive. What do you think of that product. Is it a good idea or eyes and observation is sufficient ?

 

[ceg4048]

Hi mate,
Well, PAR meters are very expensive, and there are so few people that buy them that there is not much available on the used market (although in an ebay world that can change overnight). Then, once you have it, you take a bunch of measurements, figure out what you want to do with your lighting....and then you don't use it for a while.

The thing is, that once you figure out flow and CO2 you can basically have as much light as you want so the PAR meter becomes almost academic. I would not suggest that you get one mate, unless money is no object. There are some charts available which can give you a good estimate of your PAR values. I'll look for a thread I remember with one of those charts posted and get back to you.

Glad the Atomizer is working for you. I think that's a good pH drop, and with the flow improvements this should start looking good. Remember to do large and frequent water changes!

Cheers,

 

[jart]

Hi Zanguli,
Yes, any light you can see with your own eyes is good for planted tank.

Cheers,

I would like to ask what you consider to be the basis for this statement. Is this based on your personal experience, or perhaps one of the PAR charts?
As many of us know, perhaps only 10 years ago, to grow HC or L. glandulosa, you *needed* > 3 wpg of light.
Now that "high light myth" has been somewhat dispelled. I say "somewhat" since I can sign on to many aquarium forums and there doesn't appear to be any readily accessible information (ie a primer or sticky) for beginners which spells this out.

I have read ceg4048's EI summary here. I also make a point to search out his thread posts so I can learn more. Especially about CO2 and light. Fantastic information.
I have also read a few threads on TBR that I can post here (please let me know if this is permitted on this forum) that discuss success with "good" CO2 and relatively low light.
Also the forum member Hoppy has contributed greatly to this topic on TPT forum.

Does anyone know of another good summary article dispelling the need for high lighting? I would like to read it myself, as well as refer others to it.
I hope this is not a thread hijack, but figured this discussion might be ok, since we are in the lighting subforum. I like your tank, OP
Regards.

 

[ceg4048]

I'd forgotten to get the chart I promised for Zanguli. Thanks for the reminder.
Zanguli, here is the PAR chart produced by Hoppy in the PTF forum discussion PAR vs Distance, T5, T12, PC - New Chart Pay close attention to plantbrain's posts in that thread.
The numbers are generic and so it doesn't really matter too much what brand of bulb you have, the chart is a very useful guide, but of course cannot take into account ambient light and so forth.

I would like to ask what you consider to be the basis for this statement. Is this based on your personal experience, or perhaps one of the PAR charts? As many of us know, perhaps only 10 years ago, to grow HC or L. glandulosa, you *needed* > 3 wpg of light. Now that "high light myth" has been somewhat dispelled. I say "somewhat" since I can sign on to many aquarium forums and there doesn't appear to be any readily accessible information (ie a primer or sticky) for beginners which spells this out.

It's been a combination of experience, measurements, as well as the study of plant physiology that has led to the conclusion. As it turns out, the so-called high light plants are actually high CO2 plants, so they require more close attention to CO2 and flow/distribution than light. If you use more light the plant (any plant) simply grows faster, but then in order to be healthy when growing faster they also need to uptake nutrients and CO2 faster. This is often where "high-light" plants fall on their faces, because they are usually not very good CO2 feeders. So when the hobbyists concentrates on throwing lots of light at these plants while being inattentive to the other things that plants need to be healthy the result is poor health, which leads to algae and other symptoms.

Therefore, if one wishes to grow "high-light" plants then one should take a "holistic" approach to plant husbandry instead of dissecting plant health into bits and pieces and exclusively focusing only on individual aspects.

Cheers,

 

[zanguli-ya-zamba]

Hi master
I will have a close look to the thread and to Tom s comments and also to the chart. When I have a bit of time.
Thanks for taking the time to find this for me.
Just a question before I read. My Dynax 36W are place in AHS power compact or in OTHER power compact ?
I don't know if you can answer me lol.
Cheers

 

[zanguli-ya-zamba]

Hi jart
Don't worry it a not a hijack lol.
Well from my small experience (planted tank since a year now ) you can grow most of the plants with low light ! And
I would suggest you to have a low light for now (unless you have good skills and know all the CO2 and flow skills also)
Working with high light is very tricky,
If you make any small mistake you are gone for algae, plants melting etc ... I have lost a lot of plants in this tank because I wanted to put 72 W over a 22G tank, just because I liked the bright light and just because I was thinking that a could manage a stronger light !!! And BIIIIIMM wrong idea. Now I have 36 w and this is ok.
So my advice would be put low light, be patient and always control your CO2 !!
For a nice summary I can't help you. But just go through the forum and search as many info as you can.
A good idea would be to read journals, because there you can see how people manage their problems. And you'll certainly find more info in journals than in the specific discussion of the forum.

Cheers mate and welcome to that wonderful community

 

[ceg4048]

Just a question before I read. My Dynax 36W are place in AHS power compact or in OTHER power compact ?

Hi Zanguli,
Actually I have no idea what this brand of light looks like. The AHS is a specific brand of bulb. I forget what the initials stand for but the company's name is AH Supply. I don't know who makes their bulb. It could easily be a re-branded bulb from Osram, GE or Sylvania and it may even have more to do with the specification of their ballast, rather than anything to do with the bulb itself.

If your bulb is a Power Compact and looks like either of the upper two with the glass folded then it is an "other PC". The connectors come in so many different types. There are even some with screw in connectors, but generally, the folded glass is what determines whether it's a PC.

If it looks like a regular single long tube like the two on the bottom then it is just a T5HO:

Cheers,

 

[zanguli-ya-zamba]

Hi mate how are you ?
Just a question I used to turn on the CO2 5 hours before lights but since a week I decided to turn it on two hours before lights on. But when lights turn on the DC is deep green. But I know that the DC gives you the statement of your tank two hours ago.
The ph reading is good 6,6 before co2 on and drop to 5,65 at the moment lights the on (lowest ph is 5,56). So I assume that my CO 2 is good when lights turn on !???

An other question, I know the EI is estimative, but it s not a bad thing to dose one day 1/3 of KNO3 and the other day you dose 1/2 because you were in the hurry. Than return back to 1/3 etc.... ?
I was thinking that this is not a problem because I always dose more than what I need. But I start to think of it, and you that when someone's brain start thinking like this must find an answer lol.


I wanted also to know I have set up the tank since 3,5 weeks now and my light is on for 6 hours and at 30 cm from the water surface. When do you think I could lower the light ? I will proceed to lower it 5 cm every 10 days until I reach 10 cm. do you think it's ok ?

I don't know how I can tell you thanks for all the advices you are giving me

Ha by the way the staurogyne is doing good I will start trimming it in a week or so.

Well mate cheers

 

[ceg4048]

Hi zanguli,
Glad that things have improved. It's really difficult to tell exactly what's happening with the DC and that's why the pH reading is a better indicator. Just remember that you can also be fooled if there are any other acidic sources (remember the battery acid issue?). Just to make sure that the 5/65 reading is actually due to the CO2 only do the following check:

Each time you take the pH reading, take a sample of the water out and put it in a cup or bottle or other vessel. Shake it violently for a few minutes and allow the cup to sit for 1/2 hour or so. What this does is it drives off the CO2 from the water sample. Then take the pH reading of that sample. This tells you what the pH of the water is with only a minimum of dissolved CO2. Hopefully, the two pH readings when you drive off the CO2 will be the same. Then this tells you that the 5.65 is due only to CO2. If the sample pH reading at lights on with CO2 driven off is lower that the previous sample with CO2 driven off then this tells you that there is some other acid being produced in the tank at lights on.

In any case, the plants will tell you the truth so if you start to see hair, BBA, GSA or other CO2 related faults then you'll know it was a bad idea. Hope that explanation makes sense...if not, tell me and I will try to clarify.

I wanted also to know I have set up the tank since 3,5 weeks now and my light is on for 6 hours and at 30 cm from the water surface. When do you think I could lower the light ? I will proceed to lower it 5 cm every 10 days until I reach 10 cm. do you think it's ok ?

Yes, this sounds like a good plan to me. Remember though, it doesn't really matter what I think. The tank will tell you immediately if it's not a good idea!

but it s not a bad thing to dose one day 1/3 of KNO3 and the other day you dose 1/2 because you were in the hurry. Than return back to 1/3 etc.... ?

Sure, it doesn't really matter all that much. As long as the right amount of powder gets added eventually it should not make a difference.

Cheers,