First timer's first journey...

[Anstapor]

Hello.

I've been having a bit of a conversation in my Newcomers intro post and a good piece of advice there was to start a post here - probably more relevant discussing actual issues and opinions here than there.

So, the basics - I've never had a fish, nor an aquatic plant, nor a tank - so I am the quintessential n00b. I've been reading a lot, asking questions, and taking advice on board.

Equipment - Juwel Vision 180, Eheim Pro 3 350 external filter, Hydor 300W external heater.
Stuff for the aquascape - 18l Amazonia, 25kg Baltic Rock, 12.5kg Unipac Nyassa sand, 1 bit of Redmoor root.

Goal - As a newbie I wanted to keep things fairly simple to avoid major issues and am perfectly happy going with plants you more experienced folks may find boring by now! I haven't made a final decision on plants so that's one area I'm definitely in need of more research and advice.

Anyway, I'm aware a wall of text is rather dull so I'll post up a few pics to set the scene. The first is my tank, in position, on a stand I made (standard ones are too high for my tastes) from pergola posts, carcassing timber and, made semi-presentable, with Danish Oil.

The next pics are my floorplan potential aquascape. Please note that the rocks at the front left are just to show the line of rock/soil/plants against the sand which will occupy the whole of the marked space up to the bowfront and in the canyon, they won't actually be there like that. I realise I'm making a newbie mistake already - rock and wood - I should probably just stick to one! But I really liked that bit of Redmoor and I liked the idea of a canyon. Not sure it will work out but hey, you gotta just try sometimes, right?

Opinions and suggestions appreciated.

 

[Lewis G]

That window behind the tank might cause too much light hitting the tank, which can cause algae. I think you should move more rocks to the front of the tank so that they aren't on the same "plane". It might make it look more natural too.

 

[Anstapor]

With regards the window I was actually going to paint the back of the tank black, but then decided I'd rather use something removable. That window gets very little sun and the curtain's always closed when it does (early morning and not for very long) but I sometimes sit in the window bay so it'd be nice to see the tank from there. I probably will get some black card or something that I can use as and when though. Also planning on having a half dozen Amano shrimp so with thos things combined, hopefully algae won't be too much of an issue.

Not sure what you mean about moving rocks - I hope you're not talking about the first pic as that was me just storing the soil and rocks in the tank temporarily! If you mean the floor plan I've got, like, a wavy line frontage (and the canyon) which breaks the "same plane" thing, no? I will also add height to various parts when I actually move things to the tank. The only rocks in that plan that are actually pretty much sorted (albeit that I might change my mind completely anyway) are the 2 mounds that make up the canyon.

Cheers!

Edit: Oh, the front of the tank on the cardboard plan is the drawn black line, not the physical edge of the cardboard by the way. Was that the issue?

 

[alto]

Mixing rock & wood is completely acceptable, for fun (& awe) look at Pedro Rosa's latest journal - he's included set up photos as well.

Using a removable backing is great, depending on how you end up doing it, you can pull it aside on cloudy days & see a whole new view of the tank.
Stair vibrations can be a concern with some fish (I have an underthestairs tank & did a fair but of shouting at the human elephants on the stairs - most fish acclimate, those that don't move on to another tank)
Ian S is running a fairly "low tech" tank in this journal (you might ask about the details) - Lakeland Wraith is a must read! (note the substrate supports that are left in situ)

The canyon is going to significantly affect your flow, so I suggest you do your initial aquascape with more evenly distributed rockwork (you can also look at adding intank pumps for flow) - OTOH, if you decide to cycle the tank before adding plants etc, that gives you lots of time to visualize & explore flow.
You've got enough rocks to provide good separation of the planted areas (soil) & sand

Shrimp are groupies, so adding in 10 -12 of whatever sort is always a nice idea, there's a "swap" forum which you should have access to shortly (has some minimum post #) so you can look for UKAPS shrimp etc. Tropica did a rather nice article on algae vs shrimp - note that different types of shrimp tend to prefer various algae (& otos are IT for diatoms - that brownish dust algae commonly seen in many tank startups)

Fantastic stand!

 

[Anstapor]

Man, you're linking me to a lifetime of reading in this and the other thread! Just kidding, I appreciate the references.

I have no other place to put the tank, but there's only me here and I am pretty light footed (and don't wear shoes up and down the stairs) - that side of things should be okay.

As for flow, I'd have to cut the Eheim spray bar (at least 2 holes worth, maybe 3) to fit it on the side of the tank as a lot of people seem to do. So I was planning on having it on the back, roughly in the middle - in fact I've already cut the hoses to install it that way. The flow would be across the surface, from the back, then down the front and along the bottom to the back - in theory anyway. So the canyon would actually get most flow, given no plants in there. This was why I was unsure about using a solid barrier between the sand and aquasoil along the length of the tank as this would disrupt flow. But maybe we're talking small margins here, of no big significance, I dunno.

Speaking of the tubing, boy is that Eheim stuff horrible! It's like a neon sign, or lightsabre or something. I may well replace that in future if it doesn't sufficiently blend into the tank. I guess some tall plants in front of it may suffice.

I'm happy enough having 10 shrimp instead of a half dozen - as long as they get on with the Sterbai Corys it's fine.

As for cycling - well, I've watched several aquascaping/planting videos and they seem to plant straight away - mostly, it seems, for ease of access with only an inch or two of water. But I suppose a 50%+ water change would provide decent access so I'm open to the idea of planting at the start, or anytime after that. Not sure what is best there.

 

[Anstapor]

Wondering... I've put the aquasoil in nylons to help create the layout and test, etc... but could I keep it in the nylon in preference to replacing the cardboard with plastic. Would it have any detrimental effect do you think? I could certainly easily pierce it with tweezers when planting. And I have way too much sand so could actually even cover it over.

 

[alto]

Looks good - great color on that sand & it looks a good texture

Soil in bags is a personal choice, it will impact flow through the ADA, whether that will be a negative in your situation ... time will tell.
Rock placement will look more natural with "free-flowing" substrates & I'd definitely not want to look at those "haggis" bags while the plants grow in so you want to be sure you've enough sand to provide at least 1cm coverage (you can always order in another bag & use it for top-ups)

As for cycling - well, I've watched several aquascaping/planting videos and they seem to plant straight away

It's a time/patience/presentation etc thing - you can certainly plant immediately. I suspect that many of the presenters are placing cycled filters onto the tank or performing 90% water changes if needed (re observed activity of shrimps/otos).
As you've no previous aquarium experience I suggest you cycle the tank first & acquire some experience in technique before adding in plants & livestock - algae control is so much easier with shrimp & otos in place: I'd not recommend that a novice fish keeper attempt livestock in an uncycled tank.
Tropica has a 90day app that you can follow (I don't recall the water change schedule, I think every other day perhaps, so you may need to modify this with the ADA soil re recommended protocol with ADA is 50% change everyday for first week or two) & I suspect it works very well when followed closely ... what you can't do is expect a "system" to "work" if you choose to follow only certain bits of it (eg I'd invest in their fertilizers, then switch over to EI once tank is established ... if that's your preference)

If you cycle the tank first, you can still lower the water level to virtually nothing when it's time to plant - filter will be fine shut down for a few hours (especially if water is on the cooler side, eg, 23 vs 27C - it's about dissolved oxygen levels); if you're likely to need a longer time planting, just empty the water out of the filter canister, leaving a couple cm's for "dampness", then close the canister back up: this will provide N-cycle bacteria with requisite oxygen & plenty of humidity - filter can easily remain in this state for days - weeks with only minimal losses of the N-cycle bacteria, without "food" they will enter a static phase where they aren't actively growing, then upon re-start it takes a few days (with "food") for them to return to active growth phase.
(note that other bacteria have life phases 1000's of time faster than N-cycle bacteria)

So the canyon would actually get most flow, given no plants in there.

Canyon flow is fine, but those tall rocks will impact how flow acts in the tank, you can easily test this by setting up the rocks in the bare tank (use some sort of Styrofoam etc underneath to prevent any scratches) & then visualizing the flow with colored "drops" (be cautious with colors as silicon staining can occur, also adherence to rock so only use vegetable colors or colored fish meds - note that methylene blue (used in some fish meds) will stain light colored silicone) or fine particle fish food etc ... if you borrow a Twinstar you can watch where the fine mist flows

 

[MiskyBoyy]

Damn, I was just reading through this journal when it came to an abrupt end with no update since last year :/