Led Lighting is it that good??

[Aseph]

Where i come from there's a huge hype surrounding led,on 60cm tank (30-35 cm tall) some claimed that 25 x1 watt led is consider med- high light, from my personal experience a double t5ho would give 40-60 umol measured by par meter, i hadn't had the chance to measure Led configuration but to claim double the effectiveness i find it hard to believe, further more throwing in PUR argument that blue and red led wave length peaking on the chlorophyll recipient wave

So what do you guys think?

 

[flygja]

LEDs have advantages in PAR per watt power consumption, heat dissipation (heat is not transmitted into the tank, important for folks in tropical climates like us), lifetime (50,000 hours), directional lighting for high tanks. Disadvantages are initial startup costs, colour rendering index (CRI) and the general early adopter issues such as established configurations and "best" methods.

I have a 60cm wide 36cm tall tank. It currently has 15x 3W Cree LEDs with 60 degree lenses. All DIY'd. Even with my lighting unit hanging around 80-100cm above the water surface, I still get around 80-100 PAR on the substrate!

So far I've replaced 3 LEDs due to failure in its 3 years of operation. Mine's passively cooled however, I think having a fan to cool them would increase their lifespan drastically. The LED drivers... now thats a different beast. Have had to replace them way too often.

 

[Aseph]

that is alot of light.......so head to head properly configure LED would give way more par given the same wattage compared to t5ho....

 

[flygja]

Yes of course. Remember that a T5 tube throws light at 360 degrees. You need reflectors to reflect it back into a tank. That looses some PAR. LEDs beam PAR in a small arc. I think its called collimated light. So less waste and more efficient.

 

[Samjpikey]

I have also Made own DIY led set up ,
I've used 37 x 1 watt bridgelux LEDs all with 60 optics . Initial cost was lower then a Hagen glo t5ho lamp .
Mine barely gets hot to the touch , I do have a very small psu fan but it runs on a very low voltage , Without it , still doesn't get hot .
I've had mine for about a year now and all is well . I'm very happy with the result , no light spill and as the light is completely focused at the substrate it gives off a very nice effect indeed .
I will never go back
Cheers


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[oldbloke]

I have also Made own DIY led set up ,
I've used 37 x 1 watt bridgelux LEDs all with 60 optics . Initial cost was lower then a Hagen glo t5ho lamp .
Mine barely gets hot to the touch , I do have a very small psu fan but it runs on a very low voltage , Without it , still doesn't get hot .
I've had mine for about a year now and all is well . I'm very happy with the result , no light spill and as the light is completely focused at the substrate it gives off a very nice effect indeed .
I will never go back
Cheers


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Is your build documented anywhere?

Cheers.

 

[ceg4048]

Hello,
If I were you I would worry much more about CO2, flow and distribution. It is a certainty that planted tanks are illuminated with too much PAR in the first place. So all the arguments about moles per watt and shape of tubes and all the other nonsense are academic in a planted tank. When you have problems in your tank, it will be more than likely that you have too much PAR, regardless of whether they are fluorescent, tungsten, or LED.

Cheers,

 

[foxfish]

The problem is Ceg...people just don't believe you!

 

[Aseph]

Hello,
If I were you I would worry much more about CO2, flow and distribution. It is a certainty that planted tanks are illuminated with too much PAR in the first place. So all the arguments about moles per watt and shape of tubes and all the other nonsense are academic in a planted tank. When you have problems in your tank, it will be more than likely that you have too much PAR, regardless of whether they are fluorescent, tungsten, or LED.

Cheers,

I'm just throwing discussion around, all my tank are T5ho and CFL and a lot of friends here are converting to LED, as flygja mention earlier we in tropics has trouble cooling our tanks down, and chiller would be the most expensive equipment, anyway all my tanks are cooled down by electric fan it would be nice to bring the temp down a notch and save money in electricity bill.

this weekend a friend would bring his custom LED and we will get it measured by par meter . in the meanwhile i'd just like to hear what people think on LED

ps: my "high tech" tank are around 40-60 par down the substrate, yet recently i had minor melting trouble, turned out my co2 is running out and the co2 is not pumping as much as usual, yep I agree that most of our planted tank problem is we have too much light

 

[Andy Thurston]

The problem is Ceg...people just don't believe you!

I believe! You only have to look at the amount of times people have to raise lights to cure problems and the longer they resist the longer their problems last

 

[Samjpikey]

I also believe..... that co2/distribution is more crucial to get right then lighting ,
But with a DIY led set up I found it interesting to make , I learnt a lot about spectrums , par and how plants use that light and also about electrical circuits and not to forget it was fun to build .



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[ceg4048]

I'm just throwing discussion around, all my tank are T5ho and CFL and a lot of friends here are converting to LED, as flygja mention earlier we in tropics has trouble cooling our tanks down, and chiller would be the most expensive equipment, anyway all my tanks are cooled down by electric fan it would be nice to bring the temp down a notch and save money in electricity bill.

Yes, agreed, there are many advantages of LEDs such as reduced power consumption, temperature and so forth. The most important advantage is the ability to dim the lights seamlessly and easily. But people always merge the totally unrelated issue of PAR, inevitably with the assumption that more PAR is "better", or they raise the specter of spectrum, which is another pointless argument. It's all interesting and fun to talk about it, but people should not be under the illusion that more is better or that this color is better than some other. The most important feature of LED, by far is how they look to you....

Cheers,

 

[Aseph]

Yes, agreed, there are many advantages of LEDs such as reduced power consumption, temperature and so forth. The most important advantage is the ability to dim the lights seamlessly and easily. But people always merge the totally unrelated issue of PAR, inevitably with the assumption that more PAR is "better", or they raise the specter of spectrum, which is another pointless argument. It's all interesting and fun to talk about it, but people should not be under the illusion that more is better or that this color is better than some other. The most important feature of LED, by far is how they look to you....

Cheers,

I had a friend come over last night we tested a few of his led, from a custom "disco" light LED projector down light LED to strip LED, The result watt per litter is much more than my CFL mounted on desk lamp, i was surprised and excited, i was reading almost double the value for LED, Few things for sure

1. I ll eventually get some to reduce power
2. I wont be building mixed color , they look horrible, any suggestion which color / kelvin rating for white led?
3. dimmer is a must buy, thinking building 60-80 umol down substrate and when carpeted would dial it back down to 30-40 for less maintenance

Clive i think the problem with led is some people want to believe that there is a magic cure for a problem, they think with the new high tech expensive disco light all their algae problem will disappear and they will get good growth, and inevitably the bigger the better mentality is everywhere

I believe the reason for good result with led is you get less light wasted , we tested my friend down light it was a 10 watt LED he said it cost him approx 10 usd, we mounted it to 70cm high and still getting over 60 par but the area lighted are very small ,diameter is around 40cm, you 'd definitely want 2 for 60 cm tank. thats 20 watt that would probably gets u 100 umol or over

 

[sciencefiction]

I haven't tested my LEDs but the guy that made them for me claims the PAR levels they give are about 30% more than the same amount of wattage if using T5 High Output. My light unit has 6500K high power 3w bulbs-Cree XM-Ls. He also said that dimmers decrease the life span so he installed the lights on 3 separate leads and I am using timers to just switch on or off strips of light or adjust them to run at different duration rather than dimming.
I have emersed tropical plants and if they grow near the light unit which is suspended and quite above the tank, they burn holes into the leaves so I would imagine they are quite powerful.

 

[ceg4048]

I wont be building mixed color , they look horrible, any suggestion which color / kelvin rating for white led?

Again, it depends on what you want to look at as well as how the unit blends the colors. High-end LED units have multiple channels so that the diodes on each channel can be dimmed or brightened. If the lamps cannot be dimmed independently then that is a poor design. If the assembly can mix and match various colors then you will be able to get just about any hue you want, depending on the number of color channels. Yes, of course most of the color combinations will be horrible, but with careful attention to the mix you can simulate the colors of your favorite florescent bulbs or dial in any Kelvin value you want. One of the advantages of high-end units is the availability of software to mix the color channels.

Cheers,

 

[Aseph]

Again, it depends on what you want to look at as well as how the unit blends the colors. High-end LED units have multiple channels so that the diodes on each channel can be dimmed or brightened. If the lamps cannot be dimmed independently then that is a poor design. If the assembly can mix and match various colors then you will be able to get just about any hue you want, depending on the number of color channels. Yes, of course most of the color combinations will be horrible, but with careful attention to the mix you can simulate the colors of your favorite florescent bulbs or dial in any Kelvin value you want. One of the advantages of high-end units is the availability of software to mix the color channels.

Cheers,

Thx Clive I think what you said above is too high tech and high budget for me, i will pay attention on what you said when building my future rig thou, i had a quick stop at local hardware store, i got a LED bulb, the color are too yellowish but the par value are surprisingly high, gotten better par with a 13 watt vs 23 cfl, I like how even with poor reflector Led light is more efficient since its pointing downward

ps: if you do have a high tech LED configuration mind sharing

Tha

 

[Aseph]

I haven't tested my LEDs but the guy that made them for me claims the PAR levels they give are about 30% more than the same amount of wattage if using T5 High Output. My light unit has 6500K high power 3w bulbs-Cree XM-Ls. He also said that dimmers decrease the life span so he installed the lights on 3 separate leads and I am using timers to just switch on or off strips of light or adjust them to run at different duration rather than dimming.
I have emersed tropical plants and if they grow near the light unit which is suspended and quite above the tank, they burn holes into the leaves so I would imagine they are quite powerful.

thats very intersting, i d like to read more on that matter if you have further reading. 30% more growth with same par sound plausible. mind sharing your rig?

Cheers

 

[sciencefiction]

thats very intersting, i d like to read more on that matter if you have further reading. 30% more growth with same par sound plausible. mind sharing your rig?

Cheers

Sorry Aseph, I somehow missed that. I can't tell you much more besides what he told me. And I don't even know the science behind it or whether it's true or not.
The lights I am talking about are in my Journal link "disaster" in my signature.

 

[Aseph]

Sorry Aseph, I somehow missed that. I can't tell you much more besides what he told me. And I don't even know the science behind it or whether it's true or not.
The lights I am talking about are in my Journal link "disaster" in my signature.

I think 30% is a rough guesstimate comparing this two graph, if you aim for more effective PUR range versus just white light , since PAR is defined total photon that fall between 400 and 700 . It'd be an interesting to read experiment or a study based on this idea

ps: okay will read your journal

 

[Aseph]

Did a quick test comparing CLF vs LED screw on type, both mounted on desk lamp with white reflector and without, all measured from the tip of reflector to the bottom, quick and dirty testing mind the scribbly handwriting