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Pygmy Cory infected.

zozo

zozo

Member
Joined
16 Apr 2015
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Location
Netherlands
10 days ago i went to a petshop and i saw a bunch of Pygmy Cory's in a small thank with a few agressive Botia's. The looked ok and wanted them anyway and thought save a few of these poor little things and give them a better home. I bought 9 of them.. At home i noticed one of them was missing an eye, happens with agressive botia's i thought. But this morning i noticed one of them scratching the hardware like an idiot, i sanded every stone in my tank to take the sharp edges off and still cory managed to wound itself.. Damn not good!

Here it is.
rfGcQrc.jpg


I inspected the others, and 7 of the 9 where all in a bad shape, not feeling happy and a few of them also seem to mis an eye. Can't be, but they are so small it just looked that way. At a closer look the eye isnt missing at all. Its just infected and has a grey shade.
UibZG0R.jpg


Darn! A parasite infection is my best guess.. Went straight back to the shop and yes! The rest still left there also had a few with the same infection. The shop owner offered me to bring them back. But when i said, what good is that? You probably will flush them down the drain and still you infected my tank! So he gave me some meds for free (Tetra TremaEx). Nice gesture, but still im pist off a bit.

Does anybody of you know these symptoms? Will TremaEx do the job? I realy hope i get them back on track. :(
 
Think i found something..
Gyrodactylus
http://www.fishyportal.com/cgi-bin/pub/diag?c=v&id=35&did=30527077 (Nice Website btw)
, Fish do swinging movements, Fish hang near the surface, Fish itch (fish scratch on the rocks and other objects), Fish stop feeding, Blue-grayish slime coating, Opacification of the cornea (keratoleukoma, nebula), Separate slightly red areas on the body, Separation of fin rays, Tail fin is down, Ulcers
Click to expand...

TremaEx should do something about regarding the discriptions.

Never seen those eyes before in fish.. And they are not floating yet.. There is hope..
 
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Yes on that photo it does look like it.. I know pop-eye have seen that before..
Here is a photo with a little bit better angle, they dont pop.. That's why i first thought it was missing an eye and only very close up you see its just blury. That's what the shop owner said as well about the corys still there, it is missing an eye!?
NONmloV.jpg


Here you also see the fins hang, 7 out of 9 of them were malicious this morning at 5:00, didnt want to move, all hiding in the plants. Realy had to search to find them. I kinda panicked, never have seen those eyes like that. Even the otos looked unhappy to me, but that was more me i guess..

That Praziquantel stuff does a tremendous job it seems.. They are all alive and kicking and happily playing, feeding and gulping again. :) It kills those parasites in hours it seems.

Thanks for the reply anyway.. :)
 
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A good praziquantel based med is "fluke-solve". It kills all adult flukes in 24 hours and a 2 week bath or a repeat treatment in 3 weeks after a 1 week bath should get rid of any newly borns. It's harmless to any fish or other higher creatures in the tank too and readily dissolvable unlike some other prazi based meds. I am not familiar with TremaEx but it too contains prazi. Praziquantel only treats flukes and flat worms and doesn't treat nematodes which could also be the culprit here but it has some effect on intestinal capillaria nematodes.
When prazi is first dosed, it's normal for the fish to temporary increase the "flashing" as they get irritated by the dying and falling flukes.

The other option which is a more broad spectrum is Kusuri wormer plus, which is a flUbendazole based med(not fenbendazole) It will kill snails and possibly shrimp too though but gets rid of round, flat worms including flukes, and even some protozoa. It's otherwise harmless to fish.

I would up water changes and keep the tank really clean for now, as the parasites may have caused enough damage for bacterial infections and once you've finished de-worming, you may consider a broad spectrum antibacterial med suitable for corys and one that doesn't affect the bio filter.

Good luck and well done for persevering with the sick corys.
 
Thank for the heads up SF :).. I think their gona make it.. And indeed some of them are still a bit flashy sometimes.. Most be horrable for those tiny fish and those fluks most be big monsters to them. A few of them are still a bit fuzzy and dont show often or just lay still the majority of the day. At first i was worried, they didn't want to eat. I finaly could trigger their apetite with some frozen artemia. A nice releaf to see them eat and to see that all of them are still there.. I see them recover by the hour now.. I hope the eye damage isnt permanent. The next treatment is already on the calendar..

You say "antibacterial med suitable for corys" do you have any recomendations for that? Its my first dealing with sick corys, actualy its my first time having flukes in the tank.
 
zozo said:
You say "antibacterial med suitable for corys" do you have any recomendations for that? Its my first dealing with sick corys, actualy its my first time having flukes in the tank.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't jump into treating with antibacterial for now if they are visibly improving. It is just something to be aware of as they seem quite heavily affected by whatever they have, looking at the pictures. If it's flukes, the hooks may stay in the fish and rot, irritating the fish and subsequent bacterial infections are not out of question but is not a definite outcome. It depends on the immune system of the fish and tank conditions how well they fight it off. It's good that they started eating.
Generally, parasites don't kill the host because they live off the host and fish die of secondary bacterial diseases instead. I don't know if I ever dealt with actual flukes but as far as I know fish with healthy immune system can have flukes without showing signs as long as their immune system is strong. And once there's stress, the flukes overtake and can spread really fast. Some flukes have complicated life cycle and require several hosts to multiply. Others spread from fish to fish and these are most common in tanks.

Lots of water changes will do best to prevent most bacterial issues. I am not sure what antibacterial med I'd use to be honest. I've ever used a couple for a suspected bacterial issue and I don't know what did it, the 50% daily water changes or the treatment.

Now it all depends on how all goes for the fish after the prazi treatment. If it were me, I'd wait it out, do water changes, makes sure you clean the filters and the substrate after the treatment. If it's flukes, they are famous for being persistent and hard to completely eradicate so just keep an eye on the fish and follow the recommended treatment.
The "cloudy" eye is probably caused by a parasite overload and should improve with the treatment. Let's hope they just have flukes and the prazi will do the trick.
Nematodes/round worms can also cause cloudy eye and needs a different treatment like the flubendazole one but you'd have to see if prazi works first as it could be either flukes or nematodes.
Bad water conditions can also cause cloudy eye, etc..And will impove with just fresh water.
And some bacterial issues possibly can cause that.
So it's really a hit and miss without diagnosing by microscope. But if you are seeing improvements, I'll stick with what you are doing and the flashing is a sign of parasites in majority of cases(also presence of nitrites in polluted tanks) so I would have started with prazi or kusuri wormer and then work from there.
 
It's not that i'm jumpy, i like to prepare for the worst and hope for the best. :) It's better first to know what to ask for, than to ask for something and not knowing what you get..
VTUBE0v.jpg

(The man caves corner)
It's just they are so tiny and my scape is tiny and complex as well.. So to catch one, to take a sample, i first have to chase them out of their hiding place and still have no room to hunt. But as you said, i see improvements, so i think let not stress them more then it they already are. The tank is still very young, but water quality is tip top. It all happened so soon, so im a bit in the mid as well.

I love my pets (even the shrimps and snails) more than i love myself, or my .... They realy have to depend on me, i'm all they realy have.. What ever.. That's why i'm young free and single, i guess... :)

And even if he has a 1000 or more fish to care for, i stil feel like kicking that shop owners behind..
 
They realy are improving.. :) and they realy are adorable little fellows. Love the way they interact with the other tank mates.. Schooling with the amber tetra's once in a while, or schooling together ore going in competition with the oto's, they even are interested in the shrimps.

This morning they had bloodworm for breakfast, the whole tank went frenzy. Enough for everybody but Cory still want's that piece the Oto wants.

In the background you also see a cory fighting an oto over piece of bloodworm.

Even the shrimp love it and cory is waiting for a chance to get that piece..
ANL7XLk.jpg
 
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They look very good. I love pygmy corys and ottos.

zozo said:
It's not that i'm jumpy, i like to prepare for the worst and hope for the best
Click to expand...

If you want to be prepared....
The med I'd use if the push comes to shove, and I used it myself, is seachem kanaplex. Active ingredient is kanamycin sulphate and inactive is potassium sulphate. It doesn't cause any harm to corys, shrimp or snails and I didn't notice any effect on the filter bacteria at all in my case. It's otherwise strong stuff as it's absorbed internally so it treats internal and external bacterial infections. That's the only one I am sort of certain wouldn't cause harm in a setup like this although, like with every med one needs to monitor. My tanks are the same, shrimp, corys, snails, ottos, all sensitive stuff. This type of med should be used at full dose only following the full treatment which is 6 days, redose every 2nd day after a water change up to 3 doses. Then remove with carbon. I would not use it in food even though it states it can as it's strong, some fish may take too much of it and can cause constipation and blockages.
You can only order it from ebay though, so it will take a while to arrive.

KanaPlex™ is a blended kanamycin based medication that safely and effectively treats several fungal, and bacterial fish diseases (dropsy, popeye, fin/tail rot, septicemica).
http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/KanaPlex.html
 
sciencefiction said:
They look very good. I love pygmy corys and ottos.



If you want to be prepared....
The med I'd use if the push comes to shove, and I used it myself, is seachem kanaplex. Active ingredient is kanamycin sulphate and inactive is potassium sulphate. It doesn't cause any harm to corys, shrimp or snails and I didn't notice any effect on the filter bacteria at all in my case. It's otherwise strong stuff as it's absorbed internally so it treats internal and external bacterial infections. That's the only one I am sort of certain wouldn't cause harm in a setup like this although, like with every med one needs to monitor. My tanks are the same, shrimp, corys, snails, ottos, all sensitive stuff. This type of med should be used at full dose only following the full treatment which is 6 days, redose every 2nd day after a water change up to 3 doses. Then remove with carbon. I would not use it in food even though it states it can as it's strong, some fish may take too much of it and can cause constipation and blockages.
You can only order it from ebay though, so it will take a while to arrive.

KanaPlex™ is a blended kanamycin based medication that safely and effectively treats several fungal, and bacterial fish diseases (dropsy, popeye, fin/tail rot, septicemica).
http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/KanaPlex.html
Click to expand...

I think the push came to the shove today :( the cory with the wound in his side, did die this afternoon.. Went very quick, in the morning it still didn't give any sign of problems and all of a sudden i see it spinning erraticaly and laying on it's side and an half hour later it was dead. Like his swim bladder suddenly exploded. I see no other cause for that to happen than an internal infection. I took it out and put it under the microscoop, first soem skin sample, then pieces of the fins and because they are so tiny so the light shines trough at the end the whole fish. Could not find any listed parasites.

Could find one odd thing at 100 X magn. unfortenately can't go further than that with what i have. It was round like a cirkel, like an egg shell and in it where moving little black pinhead big dots and 1 moving dot outside of it. I took 2 samples and only could find one specimin of this in both. Wasn't listed anywhere, don't know what it was. Flukes should be spoted at 50 x but didn't spot any, not in the sample not on the fish.. Flukes are gone so i think i have to find me some stuff with kanamycin sulphate if i can't find kanaplex in a short term..

The rest still looks ok, but it happend so quick with the other..So can't know what to expect. Did check the water, but that was still ok and did a WC anyway..

Darn
 
I am very sorry to hear that. The flukes if they had them, may be gone. They may have something else too.
Bacteria won't be visible with the microscope.

Anyway, have a look at these pictorial guides. There are microscopic pictures of different parasites, see if you find the one you saw. There are other links with more info but can't find them right now.

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/topic_series_common_freshwater_fish_parasites
 
Thanks! Great web site, the one i knew had more dead links then good ones. Hail to the internet. :) I wasn''t expecting to find any skin parasites, cause the flashing and scratching stoped. The wounded one was the first i noticed doing it, it wounded itself rather nasty. The rest looks better 2 of them still have a blury eye... I ordered me a portion of the kanaplex in the states via ebay, hope to get it in a week. I'm going ask my vet tomorow, i found out via a koi breeder that they should have kanamycin sulfate, as antibiotics for cats and dogs, but maybe not in liquid form, i give him a call anyway. In the aquarium shops it's not available over here.

The thing i found on it's skin was a strange one, don't even know if it is a parasite, see if i can find it back. Pitty my oldtimer stops at a 100x, should get me a digital one...
 
:) It was a Single Coccus i saw. Spherical Bacterium..
Looked like a post one as in the image.. The dots inside where moving around, like in robotic movement. I saw one dot outside moving the same way.
1757-1146-2-13-2-l.jpg


Now find out what kind of cocci it could be..from what i understand is that the pathogenic cocci's almost always occur in clusters or strings.. This one was solo.. The above web site didn't show any, but it's not a parasite.. I couldn't find the right word to search for it.. It was Spherical that did the job..
 
Well, you lost me there :) I wouldn't have an idea really. Not many have that perfect shape though so it maybe possible to find out what it was with a bit of extensive search. There are also videos on youtube I've seen of people uploading microscopic videos of fish scrapes.
Did you look on the eyes of the fish with the microscope, or the gut?
 
No not the gut, i was out off gloves, didnt want to risk cutting my fingers with that scalp handling 0.75 inch sick fishy. Did look in the eyes, there was nothing much to see. The coc i found on a skin sample. I''ll ask the vet tomorow, gona gif him a visit anyway. Maybe he can tell, before i search for hour, days or weeks.. I guess this picture above are sample (breeding) glasses and not the actual coccus. The coccus are in side the glass. Funny that a coccus looks simular under a scoop.. Haha, didn't notice that before myself...

It looked like E and R :)
images%5Cfig35.JPG


Thanx for the website again.. Interesting..
 
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Probably found it,



Not the moving one but the dorment one looks verry simular. What i saw didn't realy move like this one and was smaller only what was inside moved. I spook to someone today who recognized the discription and said 85% sure it's a young Trichodina you saw. Recomended a combination of Ethacridine lact. Malachite green and Formalin (Cerpofor® - Alparex®). If i find another dead cory i should bring it to him. To be sure not to do harm i have to wait at least 4 more days before starting the dose because of prazi still in the tank, soil and filter.

The vet i visited said he is no longer allowed to sell antibiotics like kanamicine sulfate.. It's stricktly regulated and the authorities will seize his permit to sell what ever drugs if he gets caught violating this law. Only option is, i'd bring him a fish and he should take a sample and breed it for biotics, if the diagnose is positive he is allowed to discribe the proper drugs. So no go at the vet, the procedure of breeding the biotics is quite expensive and takes longer then waiting for the order from the states.

Now something else.. For anyone living in the Netherlands reading this, ordering Kanamicine in the states is at your own risk. Lately the authorities prohibited the import of antibiotics of any kind. The seller is obligated to write the content on the package. If the customs pay attention they have to seizure the package and can give you a rather high fine violating the drugs regulations.

So be aware, do it at own risk, ask the seller if he's willing not to put any discriptions regarding the content on the package. Maybe it's not that stricktly regulated in the states and is the seller not at all obligated to do that. Dunno.. Will see what happens, might not get the package if the seler did and or maybe get a pretty fine.. Exciting, isn't it!! :)
 
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Yeah, I thought of trichodina when you said it looked like a circle.
I think it's not unusual to find this one in any tank, when not in it's parasitic "mode".
Antibiotics won't do anything to it.
What you were prescribed to use against this, I would not put in your tank. I'd put the fish in a hospital tank if treating with those meds. Plus, they are toxic to your filter, to inverts and I wouldn't be surprised for corydoras too. If I were you, I'd do my own research before medicating.
 
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