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Pygmy Cory infected.

Here is some info on malachite green/formalin combo dose:

Toxicity. Malachite green is quite toxic at the inflated levels recommended by its distributors, especially to fry and to adult tetras, loaches and catfish. Treated fish clear the drug rather slowly; its metabolites remain in their livers. A US Fish and Wildlife survey showed that activated carbon had insignificant effect on formalin remaining in water. Together those factors can make a second dosing more toxic to the fish than the first one. Instead, water changes are needed to reduce the formalin levels. Formalin is also quite toxic to you. So scrub your fingers before you put them in your mouth.

Soft acidic water renders formalin/malachite green medications more effective, that is, more toxic to parasitic invertebrates but also more toxic to fishes. Use extra caution where pH is below 7.0; be prepared to do an emergency 50% water change at the first hint of distress. In hard water malachite green may go colorless, leading you to think it isn't effective. Malachite green also increases in toxicity at higher temperatures, according to Kordon. I think fishkeepers too casually ignore these variables.

An antidote. AmQuel will quickly bind and detoxify malachite green, as well as methylene blue and potassium permanganate.
 
I was already hesitant myself reading the instructions.. It says it's develop for normal aquariums with a PH of 7 - 7,5 and DH4-8.. If parameters differ, reactions can also differ, use at own risk.. Found that already strange.. The warning chapter is larger then the overall instructions.. It also says we can not garanty its safe in all circumstances, if you notice any strange side effects pleace feel free to contact us.

Why do people recomend things like this as good? Unbelievable.. Always should read the instructions in the shop before desiding to pay.. Lessons learned..

I read good experiences with Parazoryne in combination with Sabbasticum, should both be from a natural herbal extract and 100% safe.. The Parazoryne not a typical medicine nor a parasite killer, parasites will fall of and as long the stuf is in the tank can't attach again so die off bij starvation. Sabbasticum should help fight off bacterial and fungus infections caused by the parasites. Sounds good.. Yo good to be thrue??

Do you know that stuff?

Nah, this is a bogus fairytale i guess..
https://www.microbelift.com/products/pond-and-water-garden/fish-health/parazoryne/
 
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I recall reading about Parazoryne but the other one I've never heard about so can't tell.
I wouldn't get fooled by the "herbal" thing. It's just marketing and it doesn't mean it's safe for fish. Many meds are derived from natural ingredeints and can be potent.
Melafix and Primafix are another famous example.. I killed two corys with melafix overnight! I put them in a quarantine tank and dosed melafix. The next day both were dead. You tell me.....I think it was something to do with oxygen and the already weakened state of the two corys...

However, considering the lack of options if one is treating the main tank, maybe I'd chance that Parazoryne. Just observe the fish and if any adverse reactions, remove via water changes.
I am not really sure what's a best method for treating trichodina. It seems that any white spot medications including salt treatments are effective but neither are suitable for corydoras really.

Let me know how you get on with the Parazoryne afterwards. I can't find anything better. Hopefully it works out.
 
zozo said:
A salt bath should help too, what i read at http://www.fishnet.org/sick-fish-chart.htm.
Can't harm anyway, so i still have to wait the prazi off i'll see what some (sea) salt will do. And keep searching..
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Salt is very harsh on corys and can kill them....I really would advise against it. If you do it, do in in a dip only temporary at higher doses to strip the parasites off but don't leave the corys in a salt bath. The recommended dosage to kill trichodina is the same as ich, and that's too high for corydoras.
 
Thanks SF for standing by with getting those poor things back on track.. Seems a fragile spieces those cory's where ever i read i read fatalities once they show any sign of sicknes. Strange experience though having about 15 years aquarium experience, never had nothing other than white spot in my whole aquarium career.. Now i start again, first thing i get is sick fish in the shop and i'm at a loss. The world back then wasnt as commercial as is now.. Less specailists more salesman. Pitty.. Welcome to the consumers society 2015. (Beam me up Snotty)

Though i did see some aprovment with the Prazi. Seems it slows down the trichodina but doesnt kill them.. The cory's accepted it good.. Maybe i should try a longer prazi bath then the recomenden 6 hours. As you said before 1 week bath prazi? I'll bring that other stuff back tomorow and see what i can find elsewhere..
 
zozo said:
Now i start again, first thing i get is sick fish in the shop and i'm at a loss.
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Yep, the more complicated fish keeping became, the more complicated the diseases became. It's probably improper commercial practices creating super bugs over the years.

Fluke Solve, the other praziquantel based med definitely tackles trichodina as well.
With trichodina, you won't kill all of it in a tank. It could be in my tanks too for what I know. It's a pathogenic organism that is otherwise harmless unless fish are very weakened. It could be even secondary to something else.
Those corys came with it so they got invaded because of different factors. With diseases, most of them, you need to boost the immune system of fish with clean water and proper food and knock out as many of the pathogens as possible. Once the fish's immune system overtakes, it fights off the rest. Very few meds kill pathogens 100%, not even bleach does that.

How are your other fish doing? Are the ottos or any other fish showing signs?
 
sciencefiction said:
Soft acidic water renders formalin/malachite green medications more effective, that is, more toxic to parasitic invertebrates but also more toxic to fishes. Use extra caution where pH is below 7.0; be prepared to do an emergency 50% water change at the first hint of distress. In hard water malachite green may go colorless, leading you to think it isn't effective. Malachite green also increases in toxicity at higher temperatures, according to Kordon. I think fishkeepers too casually ignore these variables.

An antidote. AmQuel will quickly bind and detoxify malachite green, as well as methylene blue and potassium permanganate.
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An article abot cory's with a chapter health managment.
http://treatfish.blogspot.nl/2011/11/seeding-of-corydoras-fish.html
Recomendations
Treatment for parasitic disease is the use of formalin 25 ppm, 500 ppm of salt.
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Its contradictive where ever you look..

Whats the best to do? Wait it out and see which is the strongest and fights it off. (let mother nature decide) or kill your whole tank with trying this and that and such!?
 
zozo said:
Maybe i should try a longer prazi bath then the recomenden 6 hours.
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Why only 6 hours?
Prazi to be effective is a one week dose or two week dose to be pretty certain it's done all the intended parasites, eggs ,etc... and maybe even a repeat in a week or two. Prazi is pretty safe longer term like this in a tank. It's also stable in water once dissolved so doesn't need redosing.
I'd leave the fish in prazi for two weeks. I'd still do water changes but redose the prazi for the removed dose.
In that med you used, what are the other active ingredients besides prazi as it could be a different med?
I am talking about prazi on it's own or in the form of "fluke solve" I recommended.
 
zozo said:
Whats the best to do? Wait it out and see which is the strongest and fights it off. (let mother nature decide) or kill your whole tank with trying this and that and such!?
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Salt wise, it affects different species of corys differently. Some are unaffected by it, some die. It probably depends on their original habitat. Pygmy corys come from soft water so I doubt it they'll do well with salt. The salt won't outright kill them. You'll just find them dead or floating, gasping at the surface unable to osmoregulate after a few days in a high enough salt concentration.

As for formalin, I don't know. I've never touched the thing.
 
sciencefiction said:
Why only 6 hours?
Prazi to be effective is a one week dose or two week dose to be pretty certain it's done all the intended parasites, eggs ,etc... and maybe even a repeat in a week or two. Prazi is pretty safe longer term like this in a tank. It's also stable in water once dissolved so doesn't need redosing.
I'd leave the fish in prazi for two weeks. I'd still do water changes but redose the prazi for the removed dose.
In that med you used, what are the other active ingredients besides prazi as it could be a different med?
I am talking about prazi on it's own or in the form of "fluke solve" I recommended.
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It's in the brochure of the Sera TremaEx, 50% WC, 6 hour TremaEx, 50% WC, filter carbon.. Repeat every 3 weeks.. Thats what they make of it..

It's only prazi 40mg/ml

Ill go for a longer term prazi treath.. And email that lady..
 
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Well, the repeat is for killing the newly hatched flukes....Normally prazi kills all adult flukes pretty fast but if it's trichodina....maybe not...
I asked Fiona McDonald once (I hope I have her name right) for the recommended prazi treatment for flukes and other trematodes. She said 2 weeks full dose concentration of fluke solve to kill all parasites. So I'd go by that as she's a fish vet. But she spoke about her own med fluke solve. See what she says about trichodina and fluke solve and let me know please as I am now curious.
 
If i'll get an answer i'll surely will share that.. :) and if the prazi doesn't hurt and just slows those sucker down for the comming 2 weeks we are happy.. At least a little bit for the cory's the most.

And i realy feel like going back to the shop where i got them.. And if i still see them sick in the display tank for sale i write a nice article about him too..

Btw you got the name right.. First hit with name and fish
http://www.fish-treatment.co.uk/company.html
 
sciencefiction said:
Yep, the more complicated fish keeping became, the more complicated the diseases became. It's probably improper commercial practices creating super bugs over the years.


How are your other fish doing? Are the ottos or any other fish showing signs?
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What can i say!? like the wounded Cory that died.. It looked like it showed improvment, in the morning still looking vibrent and playfull even with that red patch on his side. And all of a sudden a few hours later i see it spinning up and down from the bottom to the surface and dying a half hour later. Like a sudden heart attack or brain damage who knows, could be the stress and one itch to far.

The other fish, the Oto's and Amber tetras are looking good, showing no sign of distress and are all accounted for. Even the shrimps look very good.

Now there are 8 corys left, i see one with a rather strange (that gray blue) glow on one side of it's body where the grey eye is. Also with a very small red patch, i guess thats where it scratched a monster off. Sometimes its just laying on its side looking like it has difficulty to breath. Now there is new prazi in the tank it looks more at ease and comming back to live more often and doesn't flash and scratch anymore. I try to catch that little fellows behaivor on video when i see it doing things near the glass. Maybe a good reference for other pygmea cory owners to recognize problems like this sooner. They are so tiny owners should realy observe them realy often and realy close. I notice that the dimmed lights i use all night long is helping a great deal in that. The strange body glow and glow in their eyes reveales the way this monster sickens them. By fully lit tank it doesn't realy show that good and easy to overlook.

Its also a bit typical cory behaivor to be buzzy and playfull at one time and other times just laying around being lazy doing nothing. But with the others i dont notice the heavy breathing when being lazy. So i have to be carefull not to get jumpy and panic seeing sick fish everywhere when they are just resting and see my tank explode whit growing monsters out of it. Haha. :)
 
The laboured breathing could be because it's affecting the gills somehow.

Here is a study below done on carp, tilapia(not exactly tropical) but prazi was used against flukes, epistylus and trichodina.
According to their study, 7.5-10mg/l praziquantel exposure for 3 hours resulted in non-motile trichodina and it was then expelled by the fish naturally, resulting in 100% clean. A lower dose only reduced the number but didn't eliminate them from the fish.
The same was shown for flukes, higher doses of 7.5-10ml exposure for 24-48 hours eliminated all flukes, lower exposure only reduced them.

Here is the study done if you fancy reading:

http://www.vnua.edu.vn:85/tc_khktnn/Upload\2102014-tc so 5 11.pdf
 
Thanks i love reading stuff like that. I like bioligy since childhood.. Actualy hence it was due to family bussiness that i went on as technician, else i would have been a biologist or something. :)

So on tropical fish a 6 hour bath will make them non-motile as well, else i couldnt have found one on the cory.. I think Sera isn't researching and developping either as serious as the want us to believe. Whit their bogus recomendations.. Actualy the perscribe an other drugs for Trichodina and a dangerous one though..

Here is the reply from Dr. Fiona :)
Dear Marcel,

Thank you for your enquiry.

The product I would recommend is Fluke-Solve, which contains praziquantel. I note you have already used praziquantel, but it should be used according to our label recommendations which would mean that the active will be in the water for at least 3 weeks. 6 hours would not be long enough to achieve complete removal of this parasite.

It is filter safe as well as shrimp and snail safe.

Please make sure there are no other chemicals in the tank water before you use the Fluke-Solve.

The Fluke-Solve Aquarium pack is specially designed for small tanks and comes with a measuring scoop to assist in the correct dosage.

Please let me know if you have any further questions.

Yours sincerely,

Dr Fiona Macdonald BVMS MRCVS
Managing Director
www.fish-treatment.co.uk
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So ill order me the fluke-solve today.. I see another cory dying on me today, still alive and swimming but also laying on his back sometimes. Must be the stress.. God knows how long these poor things where sick in the shop or even before that. The move to my tank possibly triggert the breaktrough. As far as i can judge it about their looks i risk 3 more dying this week. They have to do with only this prazi bath till the fluke-solve arives.

Thanks a million again SF for thinking with me and guiding me in the correct direction. Very appriciated!
 
It's no problem at all. I will be delighted if all the rest of the corys pull trough. Fingers crossed you save as many as you can. Some of them could be too far gone and irreversible damage done and you are doing the best these fish would have got considering the condition in which you got them. I was reading trichodina does affect the gills of small fish and it's harder for medication to get in there normally so the worst affected....
Maybe a dip with a higher dose of prazi for a few hours in a clean container for the worst affected.... but it could be too stressful for the fish....
 
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