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question on increasing ferts

James Flexton

Member
Joined
21 Aug 2007
Messages
358
Location
Stotfold, Herts/Beds
Hi,

Basically I want to increase the nitrate in the tank and am dosing EI KNO3 and KH2PO4

can I simply increase the KNO3 or should I also increase the KH2PO4 to keep the ratio of ferts the same?

ive got plenty of co2 in the tank and distribution/flow is fine, good growth but dwarf hairgrass and HC looks a slight bit more yellow than id like. only a hint of yellow but id like to nip it in the bud.
 
Hi all,
Basically I want to increase the nitrate in the tank and am dosing EI KNO3 and KH2PO4can I simply increase the KNO3 or should I also increase the KH2PO4 to keep the ratio of ferts the same?
You can just increase the amount of KNO3, it contains more potassium than nitrogen (39% K, 14%N), and plants need them in about the same amounts. Even though phosphorus (P) is the other macro-nutrient plants require much less of it.

The problem with most compounds that are higher in nitrogen, like urea (CO(NH2)2) or ammonium nitrate (NH3NO3) is that they contain (or are broken down to) ammonia.

cheers Darrel
 
Jim,
Ratios are irrelevant, so if there is a shortfall then one only needs to add what is missing.
Having said that however, it doesn't really matter if you add more of everything, especially when it is not clear exactly which of the nutrients is in low supply.
What's more disturbing however is that you really should not be suffering any nutrient shortfall if you are dosing at EI levels so that means there is some fundamental issue gone awry, probably flow/distribution or miscalculation.

Cheers,
 
Hi,

Basically I want to increase the nitrate in the tank and am dosing EI KNO3 and KH2PO4

can I simply increase the KNO3 or should I also increase the KH2PO4 to keep the ratio of ferts the same?

ive got plenty of co2 in the tank and distribution/flow is fine, good growth but dwarf hairgrass and HC looks a slight bit more yellow than id like. only a hint of yellow but id like to nip it in the bud.
Can u provide pics?
 
Jim,
Ratios are irrelevant, so if there is a shortfall then one only needs to add what is missing.
Having said that however, it doesn't really matter if you add more of everything, especially when it is not clear exactly which of the nutrients is in low supply.
What's more disturbing however is that you really should not be suffering any nutrient shortfall if you are dosing at EI levels so that means there is some fundamental issue gone awry, probably flow/distribution or miscalculation.

Cheers,
i think im dosing standard EI.
KNO3 just over 1/4 tsp 3x per week
KH2PO4 just under 1/4 tsp 3 x per week
trace on middle days
2 days rest
water change on day one and start again...

pics below.
growth seems good its just not as lush green as id like. we are only 2 weeks in so it might just be emmersed growth from retailer dying off to be replaced by immersed growth.

DSC_0274.jpg
DSC_0280.jpg
DSC_0281.jpg
IMG_0276.jpg
IMG_0277.jpg

Are you dosing magnesium ?

no. I have very hard water KH 17 ish so understand I dont need to.

Can u provide pics?
above...

cheers for the input guys
 
Hi all,
I have very hard water KH 17 ish so understand I dont need to.
You still need to add magnesium, most of the aquifers in the UK are fairly pure limestone (often chalk) so just CaCO3 with very little "dolomitization".

If you have hard water with a lot Ca++ ions it will interfere with plant uptake of Mg++ ions, as will very high levels of K+ ions, so it is quite possible that you are seeing Mg deficiency symptoms.

Magnesium is mobile within the plant, so if you add some "Epsom Salts", and it is magnesium deficiency, you should see rapid greening.

In the USA things are different and a lot of their limestones (and aquifers) have quite a high proportion of magnesium present.

cheers Darrel
 
ok so just off the shelf epsom salts yes? and how much to put in?

Hi all, You still need to add magnesium, most of the aquifers in the UK are fairly pure limestone (often chalk) so just CaCO3 with very little "dolomitization".

If you have hard water with a lot Ca++ ions it will interfere with plant uptake of Mg++ ions, as will very high levels of K+ ions, so it is quite possible that you are seeing Mg deficiency symptoms.

Magnesium is mobile within the plant, so if you add some "Epsom Salts", and it is magnesium deficiency, you should see rapid greening.

In the USA things are different and a lot of their limestones (and aquifers) have quite a high proportion of magnesium present.

cheers Darrel
 
ok just bought some and looking at EI calc i have added 3.7g. ill do this from now on when dosing other macros
 
In my experience and in my opinion they look fine. When did you plant them?
 
think im dosing standard EI.
KNO3 just over 1/4 tsp 3x per week
KH2PO4 just under 1/4 tsp 3 x per week
trace on middle days
2 days rest
water change on day one and start again...
Bingo, issue is where is your magnesium ?

http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/deficiencies.htm

It amazes me that people decide to deviate from all the work that into studying EI, role their own dosing schedule, based in information they don't have, miss out one of the cheapest ingredients and wonder why they have issues. Sorry to be negative (or offensive ?), but this happens here again and again. You can get 25kg magnesium sulphate for £18 delivered from a well known auction site. Whop it in, job done. :)
 
My excuse is I went from memory from 10 years ago which is when I last did EI. And forgot the Mg ha ha.


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The Nitrate dosing does not look right Jim. Not sure what the tank size is but the PO4 and NO3 should not be the same number.

Cheers,
 
My excuse is I went from memory from 10 years ago which is when I last did EI. And forgot the Mg ha ha
So 25kg of magnesium sulphate it is then at penance for being silly...apparently good for skin if you bath in it as well.:D
 
And constipation. Lol
Ceg, I'll post Tomorrow with the Grams per dose (dry dosing) of each. It's a 120L tank I think I worked it out based on 100L of water after displacement (ish).




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The Nitrate dosing does not look right Jim. Not sure what the tank size is but the PO4 and NO3 should not be the same number.

Cheers,

Morning Clive,

so according to the nutrient calc for 100L i should be dosing the following

1.5g KNO3 (1/4 tsp)
0.58g KH2PO4 (1/8 tsp) (or half of a 1/4 tsp as i dont have a 1/8 measuring spoon)
3.7g MgSO4 (3/4 tsp)

im going more on weight rather than tsp's. i have small scale digital scales so have weighed out the above tsp's and worked out how much i need to dose as im not weighing powder every day.

so after double checking it now the KNO3 looks correct but i may have been slightly overdosing the KH2PO4 which isnt the end of the world.

However does this look like enough volume of each fert for the tank.

120L (100L after displacement) about 10bps co2 at the moment, good flow, no obstructions in tank for flow to circulate well.

i added the Epsom Salts last night and this morning it does look a little greener. but that might just be my bleary morning eyes seeing things through rose tints!
 
The dosing is per tank size, not water volume. In any case the numbers are OK and the differences should not matter. If the Mg addition solves the problem then perfect.

Cheers,
 
this morning it does look a little greener. but that might just be my bleary morning eyes seeing things through rose tints!
Its the Matrix at work. You do some change to your tank, whether it be relevant (as in your case) or completely "wife's tale" and irrelevant, and the Matrix convinces you to see the result you were expecting.
 
Hi all,
....added the Epsom Salts last night and this morning it does look a little greener. but that might just be my bleary morning eyes seeing things through rose tints!
If it was magnesium deficiency could really be greener, magnesium is the central atom of the chlorophyll molecule and mobile within the plant, so you get a fairly instant greening effect on the newer leaves.
chphyll.gif

cheers Darrel
 
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