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After the Move

Joined
10 Mar 2018
Messages
469
Location
Aylesbury
In the end I have given up and re-scaped the tank. After two moves and a week in between with no maintenance it was looking pretty destroyed.
My Red plants have taken the biggest beating and lost most of there leaves, hopefully they will recover or will be replaced.

The watervshould clear, the substrate I've used Pro Aqua Scape- flora base pro and nutri base. It says all over the packet that it may cause water to go cloudy and should clear in 2 to 3 days. It was available from my Lfs, No idea if its any good. I'm Dosing full EI so not sure how critical it is.

Still lots of work left

Lots of cleaning and tidying, I'm planning 70% water changes twice a week to start with, This will that will give me chance to suck up some of the substrate that's gone on its travels around the tank and clean out the and dead leaves and blahblahblahblah that builds up right in the centre.

Hardscape
I wish I was one of these people who could leave it alone but I know I will end up moving stuff arround. For me it's the fun of owning a tank.

I'm still not sure if the gap between the rocks at the back is too large. Possibly I can add some plants to help close the gap. Possibly ramp it up a bit more and try and get a feeling of distance.

Plant wise
Foreground, I need to add some small plants In front of the rocks I was thinking of penny wort not sure what else. Try and break it and make it look a bit more natural.

I also need some more full height background plants to fill in both sides. Lots needs pruning and rearranging still required .

Super glue fissden and flame moss to wood.

I'm not sure what to do with the carpet, I've still got quite alot in a bucket that could do with replanting

Fish wise in a few weeks time I'm planning on adding about another 10 pygmy Cory's (if I can find anyone with stock) , 6 more dwaft rainbow fish and replace the ember tetras that didn't survive the move and possibly add cardinal tetras.

One last job is too add a white tint film to the back of the tank

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Please feel welcome to suggest any changes.
 
I hate cloudy water - I just do large daily water changes to remove the fines ... I’m always concerned about fine particles irritating gill tissue or bacterial bloom decreasing oxygen levels :rolleyes:

Tank looks good
I like the curved pathway, maybe narrow it towards the back (ie with distance)
Must’ve been a crazy weekend!
 
I hate cloudy water - I just do large daily water

I normally would but I'm not really set up at the minute to do large water changes.. 250 litres with a bucket takes a while. I'll carry on unpacking till I find my pump.

Must’ve been a crazy weekend
Long and hardwork, got faffed arround by removal companies so hired a large van.
 
4 days in

The water has cleared and I've added a few extra plants and moved things around slightly.
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I've added a extra rock at the back of the path that I'm not sure about, might need to see what is available at my Lfs next time I visit.
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Ps if your wondering what the spidery looking plant on the left is its penny wort grown from seed, definitely not worth the effort, all its leaves fell off. But don't have the heart to bin it yet..

Ps can someone please tell the flame moss its meant to grow vertically up.

Pps if anyone noticed the green plastic intake pipe... Yes I smashed another one. Stainless steel next time arround.

I also finally recapped my nursery tank, it's only 9 litres. The rocks looked smaller in the shop
 
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First couple of weeks have been hardwork.

I'm missing my timer, everything is normally run from WiFi controllers and with no broadband. Everything is back to manual control. (Vodafone are useless)

Add to that my active soil is still leaching ammonia, leaving me doing large unplanned water changes when the fish start looking stressed (every few days).

With all this my Co2 levels and ferts have been all over the place, and my monte carlo carpet is now half dead.

50/50 on if I should start dosing with excel on a daily basis, some how the tank still no signs of algae.

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Sorry this is happening :(

Sounds like your biological filter media is overwhelmed or has lost its “cycle”

Don’t wait for fish to look distressed before changing water, ammonia causes irreversible damage to gill structure and biochemical proteins (unlike nitrite toxicity it isn’t blocked by adding salt etc)

Daily water changes will help fish and plants - with a Python style system it should only take 30min or so ... depending on your water pressure, I drain tank to toilet (it’s the rainy season or cold enough for ice now), then refill from tap adding sufficient Prime for 1.5 - 2 times tank volume (sensitive fish indicated that a single dose wasn’t enough)

Add Zeolite (which adsorbs ammonia) to the filter and change daily - it will “dump” all the bound ammonia if overwhelmed It’s available as a “sheet” product or “chips”, choose whichever is easiest to manage on a daily basis

I’d avoid adding Excel when livestock is already experiencing ammonia stress (& possibly nitrite as well)
 
Daily water changes will help fish and plants - with a Python style system it should only take 30min or so ... depending on your water pressure, I drain tank to toilet (it’s the rainy season or cold enough for ice now), then refill from tap adding sufficient Prime for 1.5 - 2 times tank volume (sensitive fish indicated that a single dose wasn’t enough)

I've got a pump setup to drain the water out, it takes about 15 mins to drain down, I then fill it realitivily slowly over a period of about 30 mins with a extra 500w heater to try and smooth out the temperature variation. I normally add about 10ml prime to be on the safe side (350l tank)

Add Zeolite (which adsorbs ammonia) to the filter and change daily - it will “dump” all the bound ammonia if overwhelmed It’s available as a “sheet” product or “chips”, choose whichever is easiest to manage on a daily basis

The problem is I'm not completely convinced the problem is ammonia..
I'm not seeing it in the water test results (even if they are horribly inaccurate I would expect either JBL or API to show something.)

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I wondered if it was o2 levels so stuck a bubbler in it for half a day with no improvement, the fish do look happier after a large water change.
 
I’d bring a sample into a shop (or 2) to confirm the lack of ammonia - just in case your kits are off for some reason

It’s quite possible something else is leaching or entering the tank, if you’ve not done so already, add a good amount of marine grade carbon (Seachem matrix or similar grade) even if you’re already running purigen

Try to think of anything that’s changed since the move
 
substrate I've used Pro Aqua Scape- flora base pro and nutri base
contact tech support and confirm they’ve had no odd reports on either product - I’d call to make sure I’m speaking with someone knowledgeable rather than just emailing
 
I've added a extra rock at the back of the path that I'm not sure about

I like it, in my mind it gives a destination point at the end of the path, if you are not sure try different sizes to change the perspective and see if you prefer it.

Lovely tank tank, even considering all your challenges.
 
already, add a good amount of marine grade carbon

Adding carbon makes a lot of sense, does anyone know how much, and how often I need to change it?

contact tech support and confirm they’ve had no odd reports on either product - I’d call to make sure I’m speaking with someone knowledgeable rather than just emailing

There website is pretty minimal, I've emailed them and will try and ring on Monday. A small company In Netherlands importing a product from Japan doesn't fill me with hope when it comes to quality control, but I guess it all depends whos manufacturing it.

http://colombo.nl/plants/heavily-planted/
 
As an example, Seachem Matrix Carbon

250 mL will easily treat 400 L (100 US gallons) for several months. Use in a filter bag. Rinse before use. For best results, MatrixCarbon™ should be placed so as to maximize the flow of water through it. It may be used in a canister filter, chemical filtration module, box filter, or any high flow area of a trickle filter.

Read through their product information page just for general carbon information if it’s not something you’re familiar with - there’s often useful info on their discussion forum as well

Like Zeolite, the action is adsorption rather than absorption so “dumping” can occur under certain circumstances - hence the removal of carbon that’s been used to remove medication rather than leaving it running in the tank

In your case, if using Matrix Carbon, I’d add the recommended amount for total tank volume, and replace weekly or twice monthly or monthly depending ... you’ll just have monitor fish

Check with your water supply and ask after any recent events that might affect water quality for fishkeeping (check with local shops, fishkeeping clubs etc), also check for any water infrastructure work happening in your area

Local reef, marine shops should be able to suggest suitable quality carbons to try
 
Hi... completely off subject (sorry). What are the dimensions of your tank and glass thickness. Thanks, Lee.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Superfish have a product Crystal Clear Biological filter media about a fiver lasts about six weeks contains act.carbon and zeolite supplied with media bag
 
Hi All

Been a busy week, finally have fibre optic installed so my controller is all up and running :)

The tank is now covered as my new house doesn't like the extra moisture. I've had to move arround my wood also added some flame moss that seems to be growing down rather than up.

Adding carbon made no difference

Wondering if the problem is simply a lack of o2,
I turned my co2 down after reading the reply below.
If anything this has made the problem worse, I've ended up doing water changes every other day.

I've borrowed a air pump from my nursery tank and left it running overnight and everything is looking alot happier. Strangely the drop checker is still dark green. I'll buy another air pump today and set it up on my controller to come and run over night. Also set my co2 to come on half an hour earlier.

Does anyone know if this will be enough to oxygenate the water through out the day?

I got a interesting reply back from colombo, guy sounds very knowleagable. I suspect some of the results are down to dubious hobbies kit test results and hard water.

" No, we didn’t have a bad batch of Florabase or Nutribase that I know off. You are the first who is experiencing fish death in connection to both products.

They only abnormal water value I can see, is the CO2 content, which is 35 mg/l. This is dangerously high. We generally take 25 mg/l as the maximum safe CO2 concentration. At higher concentration CO2 can work as an anaesthetic for fish and this will lead to their death. The low pH is caused by the Florabase but this is always accompanied by a decreased KH, which drops accordingly, generally to 1-2°DH. In your case it is still 10°DH and thus the CO2 concentration (which is calculated from pH and KH) is very high. I don’t know why the KH is so high. What was the KH initially when the Florabase was added? Or are you adding a KH+ solution to keep the KH high?
"

On a happier note plants are doing well, Heteranthera zosterifolia is growing like crazy, it feels like only a week ago when I planted it from its tropica 1 2 grow cup.

Will the leaves on Rotala rotundifolia green really change to a pointed needle shape? Will it only be new growth?
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Hi all,
I got a interesting reply back from colombo, guy sounds very knowleagable.
In your case it is still 10°DH and thus the CO2 concentration (which is calculated from pH and KH) is very high.
You can't really use the pH and dKH to estimate your CO2, theoretically you can, but in practice you can't. The carbonate ~ pH ~ CO2 equilibrium only really works in a drop checker, where you don't have any other basic ions.
Check with your water supply and ask after any recent events that might affect water quality for fishkeeping
If there is water main work near you? <"Emergency chloramine dosing"> is a possibility.

Rather than trying to test for ammonia (or CO2), you can look at the fish gills and gill cover, if the gill cover is slightly raised and the gills purple or dark red, the fish is suffering from high ammonia (or CO2) levels.
Does anyone know if this will be enough to oxygenate the water through out the day?
Because you are adding CO2, total oxygen levels are unlikely to be an issue during the photo-period, because the plants aren't CO2 limited and will be photosynthesising at a fast rate.

If you do have an added ammonia issue the extra oxygen, from either the air pump or the plants, will help.

cheers Darrel
 
If you suspect ammonia add something like Prime which will remove ammonia. I have used it for an emergency tank where no cycled water or filter media was available. Just dose daily. Unfortunately Prime (and other dechlorinators) can interfere with ammonia test kits (and most test kits) and give false readings, so once started daily dosing Prime you can no longer test the water unless left for 48hours or more for dechlorintator to disappear.
 
I've borrowed a air pump from my nursery tank and left it running overnight and everything is looking alot happier. Strangely the drop checker is still dark green. I'll buy another air pump today and set it up on my controller to come and run over night. Also set my co2 to come on half an hour earlier.

Does anyone know if this will be enough to oxygenate the water through out the day?

Adding in the Twinstar Nano or M kit (Aquasabi seems to offer the complete collection) will increase oxygen levels much more efficiently than any other device and certainly protects against CO2 overdose - as I proved on more than one occasion :oops: :oops: :oops:
(though being rather lazy I’ve not run the Twinstar in ages ... it could do with a replacement membrane but the only local shop selling the unit has stopped and cost of shipping means I’m unlikely to ever order one - I’m just much more careful about checking CO2 bps now)

Setting up your filter return so that there’s a good ripple effect will also increase gas exchange - obviously there will be more CO2 loss than when surface has minimal movement

With air pumps choose airstones that provide a fine mist as this means better dissolution

The pH/dkH/CO2 tables works quite well as long as the carbonate buffer system is the major/dominant buffer system - true of most natural water though there are closed vs open systems effects, also photosynthesis effects etc
If you want some chemistry

Carbonate equilibria in natural waters
http://www.chem1.com/acad/pdf/c3carb.pdf

High CO2 concentrations certainly affect fish behaviour - I’ve seen many wonderful planted tanks (online & irl) where fish are obviously “sedated” displaying slow, languid movements - whereas my (same species) fish are in almost constant motion
Maybe keep a log of fish activity and see if you note any trends

Heteranthera zosterifolia is growing like crazy, it feels like only a week ago when I planted it from its tropica 1 2 grow cup.

Will the leaves on Rotala rotundifolia green really change to a pointed needle shape? Will it only be new growth?
Only new Rotala growth will show the long slender leaf shape - once plant is established you can trim and replant submerse growth stem, cutting the old emerse growth back to a few cm’s above the substrate
Eventually the old emerse leafs will deteriorate and melt/fall off the stem anyway

I look for short, compact growth when buying emerse post of Rotala rotundifolia or Rotala green, if plant is tall and healthy, you can also just cut back the stems and plant both the tops and base
If stems are in poor condition, I plant the growing tips (you want at least 10-15cm, shorter stems will also transition but then optimize light etc rather than expecting the plant to emerge “happily” from deep shade) and often bin the base of the plant
If there is stem melt/deterioration this is best discarded as it won’t recover, healthy root stock/stem can generate new stems but as with the very short growing tips, plant in an area with good light

H zosterfolia is a fast grower, but not quite so easy to grow with the form shown in Tropica’s photo ;)

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As for Prime interferences with test kits, check with Seachem as they’ve done the research and testing on this, some info is in the FAQ, more info is available on the discussion board (some quite technical, some more general depending on who answered for Seachem Tech Support)
 
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