Do I have BGA?

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Pre filter has been rinsed once since setup. Rinsed in tank water just to be safe?!?

I'd probably try and clean then every week, a rinse in the tank water is usually preferred. I'll be honest I just run the sponges under the cold tap, because we have fairly low levels of chlorination in the UK.

We don't know what causes BGA "outbreaks" (as you may have gathered from the the other threads), but it may be linked to high levels of organic matter and low levels of oxygen in the filter, hence my question and why @Nick72 asked about flow. Personally I'd just syphon it out and I'm pretty sure as the plants grow fully in it will go away.

In terms of the filter "Matrix" is fine as a <"biological filter medium">, because we have planted tanks we don't need (or want) <"anaerobic denitrification"> to occur in the filter, and plants will mop up <"nitrates etc."> for us.

cheers Darrel

 

[Ruskie]

I was always under the impression that excess phosphates promote BGA. It’s also associated with poor maintenance, although in your case that doesn’t seem to be the cause. Do you d9 water change with straight tap water? Have you checked your tap water for phosphates. Often, during dry periods, phosphates run high, and when it does rain there is run off from agricultural fertilisation.

I do the water change straight from tap and then add API stress coat+. I add this to the tank once I've finished the change.

I don’t any test kits or the like so I have no idea about phosphates in the tap water. I’m going to see if I can find some kind of water report online.

 

[Ruskie]

Hi all, I'd probably try and clean then every week, a rinse in the tank water is usually preferred. I'll be honest I just run the sponges under the cold tap, because we have fairly low levels of chlorination in the UK.

We don't know what causes BGA "outbreaks" (as you may have gathered from the the other threads), but it may be linked to high levels of organic matter and low levels of oxygen in the filter, hence my question and why @Nick72 asked about flow. Personally I'd just syphon it out and I'm pretty sure as the plants grow fully in it will go away.

In terms of the filter "Matrix" is fine as a <"biological filter medium">, because we have planted tanks we don't need (or want) <"anaerobic denitrification"> to occur in the filter, and plants will mop up <"nitrates etc."> for us.

cheers Darrel

As you’ve probably noticed I have the spin type outflow pipe in the tank. Do you think it’s possible this is creating flow around the perimeter of the tank thus causing a ‘dead spot’ in the central areas. Would I perhaps benefit from using a standard lily pipe?

 

[jaypeecee]

Hi @Ruskie

We don't know what causes BGA "outbreaks" (as you may have gathered from the the other threads), but it may be linked to high levels of organic matter and low levels of oxygen in the filter, hence my question and why @Nick72 asked about flow. Personally I'd just syphon it out and I'm pretty sure as the plants grow fully in it will go away.

Low water flow in any part of the tank is probably what kick-starts the process of a cyanobacterial outbreak. This allows just one fragment of cyanobacteria to settle on the substrate and start growing. Then, other free fragments in the water column settle in the same (or more) colonies. I have scientific research papers going into detail as to how this happens. But, then, it's a collection of elements (nutrients) that may, or may not, fuel its growth depending on their relative proportions. Many of the heavy metals such as copper, nickel and cobalt all play their part. It is hugely complex and different types of cyanobacteria behave differently. I identified Oscillatoria as being the type of cyano in one of my tanks. And that's the subject of the thread I started.

I wouldn't place much faith in hoping that it will just go away - that's not been my experience. And I can't see a good reason for thinking why it would happen.

JPC

 

[Ruskie]

@jaypeecee

You posted a reply as I was typing the question about flow

I’ve read your thread and to be honest a lot of it does go straight over my head, I am not scientific if any shape or form. I will reread until hopefully bits start sinking in

I see you found a solution though which I will look into.

 

[Ruskie]

Not sure if this is of any use but this is apparently the latest report from my water supplier. Ashamedly it means nothing to me.

What's in your water?

Substance	Typical Value	UK/European limit	Unit
Aluminium	8.3	200	µg Al/l
Calcium	42.3	-	mg Ca/l
Residual chlorine - free	0.37	-	mg/l Cl2
Residual chlorine - total	0.46	-	mg/l Cl2
Colour	1	20	mg/l Pt/Co Scale
Conductivity	255	2500	µS/cm
Copper	0.0274	2	mg Cu/l
EColi	0	0	no/100ml
Fluoride	0.06	1.5	mg F/l
Iron	8.8	200	µg Fe/l
Lead	0.15	10	µg Pb/l
Magnesium	4.1	-	mg Mg/l
Manganese	0.8	50	µg Mn/I
Nitrate	6.79	50	mg NO3/l
Nitrite	0.002	0.5	mg NO2/l
Sodium	14.2	200	mg Na/l
TotalColiforms	0	0	no/100ml
Turbidity	0.17	4	NTU
pH (Hydrogen Ion Conc.)	7.6	6.5 - 9.5	pH Units

 

[jaypeecee]

I see you found a solution though which I will look into.

Hi @Ruskie

I have spent hundreds of hours trying to solve the cyano conundrum. I am a scientist but not in the microbiology field. Fortunately, I could understand enough of the scientific papers to realize that only a true specialist in this field would ever get to the bottom of it. Being photosynthetic organisms, this form of bacteria uses light just like plants. But, cyano needs very little light to grow. However, the rate at which it grows will depend on the intensity/brightness and colour spectrum of the light. In fact, cyano makes use of a part of the spectrum (yellow/orange) that is of no/little use to plants. It probably puts up its feet and basks in it. There's plenty of yellow/orange light in some of the aquarium lighting products currently on the market. But, it is needed for our benefit in order to make plants look nice. As with so many things, it's a case of finding the right balance.

I'll stop there - for the moment.

JPC

 

[jaypeecee]

Not sure if this is of any use but this is apparently the latest report from my water supplier. Ashamedly it means nothing to me.

Hi again, @Ruskie

Those figures appear to be typical for your geographical region. No major surprises there. It's interesting that they only provide typical values. Some water companies, including my own, publish maximum, mean and minimum values.

JPC

 

[Ruskie]

Hi again, @Ruskie

Those figures appear to be typical for your geographical region. No major surprises there. It's interesting that they only provide typical values. Some water companies, including my own, publish maximum, mean and minimum values.

JPC

The report is just one I found on their website for my supply/area code. I can request a more detailed one I believe. Is that needed?

I feel I have a better, albeit very limited, understanding of what might be occurring at least thanks to the knowledgeable people in this thread.

So, plan of action.

Ive ordered some Blue Exit that’s due in a couple of days.
Syphon what I can out and clean the wood best I can.
Continue with the regular water changes and clean the filter a little more frequently.
Look at maybe purchasing a standard lily pipe instead of the spin type to change up the flow.
Reduce photoperiod and ferts for a while.
Pray.

Sound reasonable?

Appreciate the input from everybody

 

[jaypeecee]

Hi @Ruskie

The report is just one I found on their website for my supply/area code. I can request a more detailed one I believe. Is that needed?

No, it will not be needed (by me, anyway).

Ive ordered some Blue Exit that’s due in a couple of days.
Syphon what I can out and clean the wood best I can.
Continue with the regular water changes and clean the filter a little more frequently.
Look at maybe purchasing a standard lily pipe instead of the spin type to change up the flow.
Reduce photoperiod and ferts for a while.
Pray.

Sounds like a good start. Once you've got the Blue Exit, let us know. I'm confident that the Blue Exit will start to show visible effects within about three days. But, please be aware that it may be necessary to purchase a UV-C sterilizer to finish the job off - once and for all. There is no need to purchase it yet. Let's wait and see how things unfold. I'd also consider alternatives to changing your lily pipe in order to improve flow.

JPC

 

[Ruskie]

I'd also consider alternatives to changing your lily pipe in order to improve flow.

Im showing my lack of knowledge again but could you elaborate on the above please?

I originally purchased the spin outflow figuring that with the tank being non CO2 it would be ample in my smaller tank.
I also thought the Oase filter would be adequate but now I’m second guessing myself.

I thought I had done a lot of reading/research before diving in, clearly not
I guess there’s no substitute for getting your hands mucky and learning the hard way!!

 

[jaypeecee]

Im showing my lack of knowledge again but could you elaborate on the above please?

Hi @Ruskie

No problem. The primary function of filtration systems such as the Oase is to do just that - provide filtration. And, of course, this means a certain amount of flow. But, in order to ensure good distribution of nutrients around the tank and reduce the likelihood of cyano taking hold, it is sometimes necessary to supplement this with such things as circulation pumps, for example. But, this may not be necessary in your case whilst not using CO2. I believe it may be @Wookii who is currently investigating water flow in some detail. I suggest you search for threads by @Wookii for more information.

So, just to be clear, I'm not suggesting that you change your lily pipe. You may decide that this is fine and will, in conjunction with your Oase filter, be perfectly adequate.

Does this clarify things?

JPC

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I originally purchased the spin outflow figuring that with the tank being non CO2 it would be ample in my smaller tank.
I also thought the Oase filter would be adequate but now I’m second guessing myself.

I think you are doing fine, plant growth is good and <"that is the most important thing">.

You haven't done anything wrong, cyanobacteria, diatoms, green algae etc. are <"pretty much universal where you have liquid water">. All tanks will have them, it is just a case of getting a balance where you have more of the <"plants you want">, and less of the "plants you don't want".

I think of all the intersecting factors as forming a <"shades of grey"> world, where you just need to keep tweaking until you find a grey shade that you are happy with. Some people are never going to be happy unless they have "black" or "white", but for me grey is fine.

cheers Darrel

 

[Ruskie]

Hi @Ruskie
Does this clarify things?

Perfect, thanks. Sorry for all the questions, really appreciate your time.

Hi all, I think you are doing fine, plant growth is good and <"that is the most important thing">.

You haven't done anything wrong, cyanobacteria, diatoms, green algae etc. are <"pretty much universal where you have liquid water">. All tanks will have them, it is just a case of getting a balance where you have more of the <"plants you want">, and less of the "plants you don't want".
cheers Darrel

Thanks, I guess I just needed clarification it wasn't something I was doing wrong.

 

[Ruskie]

A quick update after an erm interesting evening!

So, I’ve done another big water change and a clean today. I removed the wood and cleaned it the best I could. It came out pretty good to be fair and the gunky slime, which stinks btw, came off the wood quite easily. Not so off the moss. Also cleaned the pre filter which wasn’t actually that bad.

There is one piece of wood at the front of the tank that is glued firmly in place and didn’t really want to move so I left that in place complete with slime so I have something to reference once the Blue Exit arrives.

Then the fun really started.
When reconnecting the hose connector back onto the filter I somehow managed to knock off one of the pipes. Cue water spraying everywhere and my missus shouting about water on the carpet. In my haste to grab the pipe and sort it out guess what, I knocked off the other one - a proper calamity!! I really need to figure out how to attach these better as I did this when I first set the filter up. I need some thicker hose I think as the stuff I have is quite thin.

It’s fair to say I’ve had enough tonight and am now reaching for a beer

 

[hypnogogia]

It’s only water and won’t stain. Enjoy your beer.

 

[jaypeecee]

Hi @Ruskie

Hope you've recovered from yesterday evening's ordeal!

I've just been looking again at your lily pipe outlet. I would imagine that the flow from that shape is very gentle. Do your plants sway in the flow of the water or are they almost stationary?

JPC

 

[Ruskie]

@jaypeecee

All part of the learning curve

The flow is gentle but the plants do sway albeit not much. I’m worried that with the design of the outflow I will be getting decent (ish?) flow around the edge of the tank but I might be susceptible to a dead spot in the central area. The first bit of cyano I spotted was some moss which is pretty much dead centre.

The other thing that actually dawned on me this morning was that for the first 2 weeks the tank was in a temporary location on a shelf with the filter on the floor. Since then it has been moved onto a cupboard unit which is higher than the shelf it was on previously but the filter is still in the bottom of the cupboard. I’m wondering if this increase in head height has affected the flow more than I thought it would?!?
I’m at work currently but I need to have a measure and see what I’m dealing with. It may all just be coincidence but it won’t hurt to move the filter up a shelf

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

but the filter is still in the bottom of the cupboard. I’m wondering if this increase in head height has affected the flow more than I thought it would?!?

Head height will make a lot of difference to flow. I like to have my external filters <"at (just below) the tank height">, with a short run of hosing, just enough excess hose to ensure that the hose doesn't kink.

Eheim (all my external filters are <"2nd hand Eheims">) recommend at least 4" (10cm) of head height (water surface at least 10cm above the top of the filter), but some of my filters will have slightly less than that.

Another good thing about having very little head height is that it reminds you to keep the pre-filter and hoses clean, because as soon as you don't you keep them clean you begin to get trapped air issues.

cheers Darrel

 

[Ruskie]

So, just got home and done a quick measurement and I’m pushing towards the max head height recommended for the filter, not ideal
Looks like I’ve got a reshuffling job to do at the weekend! Think this is the route I’ll take first before messing with the lily pipes.

The Blue Exit has also arrived but after reading the instructions I’m a little concerned.
Instructions state to dose consecutively for 5 days and it should clear by 10 days after the last dose, fair enough.

What has me concerned is that it states not to do a water change for 14 days after the first dose, is this going to be ok?
Bare in mind the tank will only be a month old in a couple of days so I’m still doing frequent changes. Will I not just be promoting other unwanteds?