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Garra flavatra dying

Hanuman

Member
Joined
4 Jan 2019
Messages
2,419
Location
Thailand
Has anyone kept Panda garra (Flavatra) fish for any meaningful amount of time in <0.5/1dKH? I have lost half the population in a matter of 1 month. It seems to coincide with the changing of all my filter cartridges including the RO membrane which is the one taking care of KH. All other fish (rasboras, tetras neons, flying foxes and ottos) are doing just fine including all shrimps. I have not noted any disease on them and they seem to be eating just fine so I really have no clue what is happening. I won't detail all other water parameters as they are all in check. 60% WC weekly. Water is pristine with a TDS of ~210ppm by week end. APT E dosed, remin at Ca:Mg ~ 20ppm:6.67ppm. (~3:1) so far.
 
Hi Hanuman,
If it helps I have 4 Garra, I got them in September 2020. Tank parameters are 1dkh 2~3dgh. Tds range 170 ~ 220ppm (I've had this up to 300ppm under ei dosing) Tank ph 7.2 ~ 6.4. Ca:Mg~ 9ppm:3.5ppm. Temp 25.4 Celsius. Lots of flow and high surface agitation.

Not suggesting any of the above is why mine are seemingly very healthy but hopefully answers your inquiry regards dkh.

Edit: All above parameters have deviated slightly over the last 17 months but not by much.
 
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Does your KH dip below 1?
Not sure, I haven't tested it in a long while. My 1dkh assumption is based off tap water report. I have lots of vallisneria in the tank so it could well be lower than that. I'll blow the dust off the test kit and do a test later on this afternoon.
 
Don't know how big your tank is @Hanuman but they can be quite aggressive with each other,have you noticed any fighting,?
I've had a couple of friends try to keep several and they've ended up with the others being killed off.
It's a 90cm with plenty of plants so there is plenty of room for the 10 I had. Only 5 left and 1 is not looking too good now. Very thin. I never saw any aggression among them although I have seen some videos and read it can happen. Honestly I doubt it's a fighting problem though. They were all doing fine since October last year and it all started going south for the past month. It's too many deaths in too little time for just a fighting issue.
What I noticed is that they start acting strangely a few days before dying. They will kind of flip over like if they were dying and be like this for some time. Then suddenly they go crazy and swing erratically, then stop. Then they will be "fine" until it happens again. When doing WC last Friday 1 had died very recently and was already being a banquet for the planaria and the other was about to.
 
It's a 90cm with plenty of plants so there is plenty of room for the 10 I had. Only 5 left and 1 is not looking too good now. Very thin. I never saw any aggression among them although I have seen some videos and read it can happen. Honestly I doubt it's a fighting problem though. They were all doing fine since October last year and it all started going south for the past month. It's too many deaths in too little time for just a fighting issue.
What I noticed is that they start acting strangely a few days before dying. They will kind of flip over like if they were dying and be like this for some time. Then suddenly they go crazy and swing erratically, then stop. Then they will be "fine" until it happens again. When doing WC last Friday 1 had died very recently and was already being a banquet for the planaria and the other was about to.
What’s your flow and oxygen levels like? They’re a fish from fast flowing streams so need these conditions. They probably like it a fair bit harder then you have it too. They’re from Myanmar where I believe a lot of the streams contain harder water.

I always found them to be extremely hardy boisterous fish, however I used to keep them in London tap water which is extremely differrent to your conditions.

Cheers
 
What’s your flow and oxygen levels like? They’re a fish from fast flowing streams so need these conditions. They probably like it a fair bit harder then you have it too.
These fish although liking streams and rapid flow are also found in stagnant pools during the dry season in Myanmar which can last several months.
Oxygenation on the tank is well beyond standard me thinks. Loads of surface agitation 24/7 + skimmer 24/7 + Chihiros "anti algae" bubbler that I use exclusively to further increase oxygenation + 300L/h intank pump + 2000L/h canister filter (realistically 1000L or a bit less). If that's not enough oxygen for them they should go find another home. 😂
They’re from Myanmar where I believe a lot of the streams contain harder water.
That's what I was trying to research earlier to find information on those rivers alkalinity but so far no luck.
 
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They all look pretty much the same except for one that is very thin. I thought he would die before the others but he is still alive. I don't think for long though. I'll try to get a picture later when I get home.
 
Just to comment as l don't keep these fish . Garra finding themselves in stagnant pools in the dry season of course not by choice but not ideal so we don't know the mortality rate. Probably a lot die before the dry season ends? I remember l think it was Neil Monks in PFKmagazine setting a ideal tank up as l remember long shallow tank pebbles 3 powerheads near substrate at on end piped under substrate to the opposite end for intake. The flow very fierce. MD Marc Davis seem's to successfully keep them in very soft water
 
That's what I was trying to research earlier to find information on those rivers alkalinity but so far no luck.
I suspect the waters these naturally inhabit are either soft or medium. An article written in 2009 by practical fishkeeping (Panda garra, Garra flavatra) asked Dr Sven Kullander what the water parameters were; here's his reply.

Did you record water chemistry parameters?

I used to do that for many years, but it was a pain to carry extra stuff and get dubious recordings.

During low water you get sedimentation and in some places leakages from soil will provide some conductivity.

Temperatures rise on sunny days, but probably not so much in the shaded flavatra biotopes. During high water, small streams carry only rain water, so may be totally distilled.
 
Garra finding themselves in stagnant pools in the dry season of course not by choice but not ideal so we don't know the mortality rate. Probably a lot die before the dry season ends?
Well it's part of their habitat. Not sure if many die or not but they do live in slow flowing streams as well. They are not exclusively high flow fish and can survive in slow/moderate flow year round it seems. Most people keeping these fish don't have fast flow shallow tanks and their fish seem to live fine.
And it's not like I don't have flow in the tank. I see them going in the pipes sometimes or surfing the flow of the intank pump.

MD Marc Davis seem's to successfully keep them in very soft water
How soft?
 
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