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Losing battle with tank

kellyboy47

Member
Joined
9 Mar 2008
Messages
254
Location
Margate
Having to repost because despite my best efforts this black slimey substance which I assume is algae is invasive to all parts of the tank from plants to hardscape to filters / glass (Please see attached photos)

I am still doing a 60 litre (33%) water change every week and clean both internal filters weekly but the problem is not abating although the fish seem fine. I'm worried the this 'black substance' is leeching into my substrate so just wondered if I should drain the tank down , clean thoroughly and buy new substrate. The tank was fine until I moved in February and the plants were growing so well but this is a battle I been waging since then and to be honest my patience is wearing a bit thin now. Any help / advice would be most welcome. The frogbit is growing well but I'm not sure its helping as it should

This is my tank:
1. Size of tank in litres. 180
2. Age of the set - up. 4 months
3. Filtration. Juwel Internal Filter and Fluval U4
4. Lighting and duration. Juwel Helialux 920
5. Substrate. Tropica Aquarium Soil
6. Co2 dosing or Non-dosing. Easycarbo (daily)
7. Fertilizers used & Ratios. Macro (Potassium Nitrate/Magnesium Sulphate/Potassium Phosphate) Micro ferts (Chelated Trace) alternate days
8. Water change regime and type. 60 litres weekly and both filter material cleaned
9. Plant list + When planted. Echinodorus Bleheri & Hottonia
10. Inhabitants. 3 x Blue Acara (Large) 2 x Bolivian Ram, 1 x Rainbowfish, 5 x Corydoras
11. Full tank shot & Surface Image. Attached

And this is my current lighting period
Dawn 9-10 White 0% Blue 40%
Sunrise 11-1 White 85% Blue 85%
Sunset 5-8 White 5% Blue 40%
Dusk 9-10.30 White 0% Blue 0%
 

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Looks like Cyanobacteria @kellyboy47
Definitely Cyano and the current warmer ambient temperatures won't be helping ime.
Hi @kellyboy47

Yes, that classic blue-green colour says it all - Cyanobacteria. And, it's possibly going to need a lot of work to eliminate it. I'm afraid that I'm one of those people who places a lot of importance on water parameters. So, I'd be interested in knowing the following:

Water temperature, pH, KH, GH, Nitrate, Phosphate and Iron. And, of course, CO2 concentration (using a Drop Checker). May I ask - are you using tap water? If so, have you got a copy of your water company's water report? BTW, what is the reason for adding Easy Carbo?

I suspect your tank lighting appears quite bright. Is that how you would judge it?

As you will no doubt have discovered, we aquatics hobbyists often do things differently from each other. There are almost as many approaches to this hobby as there are hobbyists.

I hope you receive sufficient replies to decide on the best way forward.

JPC
 
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There is no point swapping out substrate, it only needs invisible traces to come back. If you search the forum for cyano there are loads of posts on getting rid. It's good to work out why - sometimes it's low flow areas and excess mulm so a good clean and redirecting flow an help. Once it's there though, fixing the initial problem doesn't necessary get rid of it, it tends to hang on. You can try chemical for an easy fix, but my steps for removal is a big water change, manually removing anything you can see (toothbrush/syphon etc.), then cover the tank glass with card to block out ambient light and turn of the tank lights for 5 days and do another water change. Fingers crossed it should then be gone.
 
Water temperature, pH, KH, GH, Nitrate, Phosphate and Iron. And, of course, CO2 concentration (using a Drop Checker). May I ask - are you using tap water? If so, have you got a copy of your water company's water report? BTW, what is the reason for adding Easy Carbo?
Water temp 24.5
Ammonia 0.5ppm
Nitrite 0.0 ppm
Nitrate 20ppm
PH 7.6

I do not use injected CO2 but add 4ml of Aquadip Liquid carbon daily together with Macro / Micro ferts

I do use tapwater but add Tetra Aquasafe to the water and I live in a Very Hard water area according to my supplier Southern water
With regards to the lighting brightness I would advicxe from anybody using the Juwel HeliaLux system as I think a lot of this is trial and error
 
There is no point swapping out substrate, it only needs invisible traces to come back. If you search the forum for cyano there are loads of posts on getting rid. It's good to work out why - sometimes it's low flow areas and excess mulm so a good clean and redirecting flow an help. Once it's there though, fixing the initial problem doesn't necessary get rid of it, it tends to hang on. You can try chemical for an easy fix, but my steps for removal is a big water change, manually removing anything you can see (toothbrush/syphon etc.), then cover the tank glass with card to block out ambient light and turn of the tank lights for 5 days and do another water change. Fingers crossed it should then be gone.
So should I be hoovering the substrate if I'm not removing it ?
I do use 2 internal filters (always have done to increase flow) so should I remove the Fluval U4 and just leave the Juwel in situ ?
What are you suggesting for a big water change ?
 
So should I be hoovering the substrate if I'm not removing it ?
I do use 2 internal filters (always have done to increase flow) so should I remove the Fluval U4 and just leave the Juwel in situ ?
What are you suggesting for a big water change ?

It depends, if you've a lot of mulm built up then sphoning the top of the substrate may help - it's more pockets that don't get a lot of flow e.g. around hardscape rather than you need to deep syphon the substrate.

I wouldn't remove flow, again it's more considering if there are any areas that don't get a lot of flow.

I'd do a 50% change if that's practical.
 
Hi @kellyboy47

Thanks for the water test results.

I just want to clarify a couple of things. I assume that the blackened sponges were originally inside what seems to be a Juwel filter? And, have those sponges now been cleaned in a separate container of aquarium water before returning them to the tank itself? Back to the blue-green cyanobacteria growth on what appears like a glass panel, is it receiving direct sunlight?

Finally, you appear to be adding a lot of ferts to your tank and, unless I'm mistaken, the Tropica Aquarium Soil includes nutrients. I also note that "Aquarium Soil is further an active bottom layer that lowers the pH value and slightly affects the water chemistry." With relatively few plants, I suspect that one possibility is to add some fast-growing stem plants. That should reduce/help to control the nutrient levels in the water column. In other words, less available for the cyanobacteria.

Good luck!

JPC
 
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Hi @kellyboy47

Thanks for the water test results.

I just want to clarify a couple of things. I assume that the blackened sponges were originally inside what seems to be a Juwel filter? And, have those sponges now been cleaned in a separate container of aquarium water before returning them to the tank itself? Back to the blue-green cyanobacteria growth on what appears like a glass panel, is it receiving direct sunlight?

Finally, you appear to be adding a lot of ferts to your tank and, unless I'm mistaken, the Tropica Aquarium Soil includes nutrients. I also note that "Aquarium Soil is further an active bottom layer that lowers the pH value and slightly affects the water chemistry." With relatively few plants, I suspect that one possibility is to add some fast-growing stem plants. That should reduce the nutrient levels in the water column. In other words, less available for the cyanobacteria.

Good luck!

JPC
No the blackened sponges were from the Fluval U4, and yes I always clean them in a separate container of aquarium water before putting them back. They have reached the blackened condition at the end of a 7 day period when I do a water change, and no the aqaurium does receive direct sunlight. I bought the Frogbit to help deal with the algae and cut out some of the aqaurium light and it has grown well. I also bought some hornwort but this got covered in the cyanobacteria so I had to throw it away. I am not overly keen on buying more plants to have them end up in the same condition. Before the house move the plants were growing fantastic and I was using macro / micro ferts together with the aquarium soil and I did not have an algae problem

I googled 'what nutrients does Tropica Aquarium Soil contain' and got these 2 opposing results so I don't know what to believe

Specialised Nutrition
  • Contains nitrogen and phosphor for fast-growing and demanding plants.
  • Also contains iron, magnesium and vital micro nutrients.
  • Suitable for aquariums with many and fast-growing plants.

Tropica Specialised fertiliser - liquid fertiliser for planted tanks
https://tropica.com › liquid-fertilisers › specialised-nutrition

Does Tropica soil contain iron?

Contains iron, manganese and vital micro nutrients. Does not contain nitrogen and phosphor. Suitable for aquariums with few or slow-growing plants and many fish.


and apparently depending on the amount/type of soil used, water change schedules and growth cycles, aquasoils start depleting their nutrient stores significantly after 6 to 10 months






 
I googled 'what nutrients does Tropica Aquarium Soil contain' and got these 2 opposing results so I don't know what to believe

Specialised Nutrition
  • Contains nitrogen and phosphor for fast-growing and demanding plants.
  • Also contains iron, magnesium and vital micro nutrients.
  • Suitable for aquariums with many and fast-growing plants.

Tropica Specialised fertiliser - liquid fertiliser for planted tanks
https://tropica.com › liquid-fertilisers › specialised-nutrition
Does Tropica soil contain iron?
Contains iron, manganese and vital micro nutrients. Does not contain nitrogen and phosphor. Suitable for aquariums with few or slow-growing plants and many fish.

and apparently depending on the amount/type of soil used, water change schedules and growth cycles, aquasoils start depleting their nutrient stores significantly after 6 to 10 months
That info's about their fertiliser, not their soil.
Here's an analysis of aquarium substrates.
 
Sorry my mistake. I've had the tropica soil in place for well over a year so do you think the nutrients it held would be getting depleted by now. I assumed (probably again my mistake) that whatever the substrate I should be adding macro / micro ferts anyway but I'm open to suggestions
 
Their soil Their substrate
 
Hi all,
I've had the tropica soil in place for well over a year so do you think the nutrients it held would be getting depleted by now. I assumed (probably again my mistake) that whatever the substrate I should be adding macro / micro ferts anyway but I'm open to suggestions
Yes, you will eventually need to add some nutrients. I'm using <"Solufeed 2 : 1 : 4">, but <"TNC Complete"> etc would also do as a fertiliser.

Plants need all of the <"essential nutrients"> for plant growth, <"just in differing amounts">, which is why we talk about <"macro"> (plants need a lot) and "micro" (plants need a little) nutrients.

Your Amazon Frogbit (Limnobium laevigatum) <"looks pretty healthy">, so I'm going to say that you don't have any deficiency symptoms at present. It isn't rooted in the substrate (so itis getting the nutrients it needs from the water column) and it has aerial leaves so CO2 level isn't an issue either.

When it looks less healthy? Just add some fertiliser.

p1020144-jpg.jpg


cheers Darrel
 
Hi all,
I use macro / micro ferts on alternate days and always have done so do you think I should stop adding ferts altogether
Personally I'd be add them less frequently and see what happens. Do you have a <"TDS (conductivity) meter">? Difference in conductivity between your tap water and your tank water will give some idea of how many nutrients you have.
Also, should I siphon the substrate at all ?
I'd syphon up the Cyanobacteria and get rid of any floss or fine sponge in the filter if you can? (For the <"DOM reasons"> @jaypeecee gives).
I also bought some hornwort but this got covered in the cyanobacteria so I had to throw it away.
If you can get some more, just rinse it under the tap to get rid cyanobacteria. Ceratophyllum demersum has a silicified skeleton, so it is pretty physically robust. If all the leaves come off when you wash it? It was already pretty unhappy.

cheers Darrel
 
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I use macro / micro ferts on alternate days and always have done so do you think I should stop adding ferts altogether. Also, should I siphon the substrate at all ?
Hi @kellyboy47

I am beginning to think there may be light at the end of the tunnel. And this information about Tropica Aquarium Soil is critically important:

Iron 47,200 mg/kg

Because this iron is in the soil, we want all of it to stay there in preparation for a few stem plants at a later stage. That's if you choose to grow plants in the substrate. I suggest that we need to greatly minimize the amount of iron in the water column. Cyanobacteria are very dependent on iron. I could bore you with the scientific detail but that's for another day! Successive water changes will progressively reduce the iron concentration and help to keep organics in check. But, you may need to add a macro/micro mix to keep your Frogbit happy.

If this was my tank, I'd go the extra nine yards and measure iron concentration in the water column. It would provide instant feedback that your changes are starting to have an effect. But, the use of test kits divides opinions. If you were local to me, I'd run the tests for you.

Anyway, please keep us posted.

All the best.

JPC
 
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