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Losing battle with tank

Hi all,
Iron 47,200 mg/kg
Back to <"house bricks"> I'm afraid.
That is the one, it is why all these old tropical soils are red and quartz rich, everything that is potentially soluble has been washed away, just leaving insoluble quartz and iron (& aluminium) oxides & hydroxides. The iron can't be plant available, or it would have been leached away over the millennia. You can legitimately call "Flourite" "iron rich", but so is a <"red house brick"> and the iron is equally soluble in either case

cheers Darrel
 
I also bought some hornwort but this got covered in the cyanobacteria so I had to throw it away. I am not overly keen on buying more plants to have them end up in the same condition.
You could buy* one more bunch of hornwort, put half in your tank and half in a tub or bucket outside. If you have to bin what's in the tank after a week, you can replace it from the tub; what's in the tub will have doubled by then so you can have a constant supply.

*Unless any-one lives near @kellyboy47 and could give him a bunch?
Apparently it doesn't like being posted.
 
Hi just a quick update on state of play. I did as Tam suggested and turned off lights for full 5 days following water and I have not added any nutrients macro or micro for 7 days but have been adding liquid carbon daily.

I did a water change today and although there was not as much algae on the aquarium front glass the sponge filters in the Fluval have just as much black gunk on them. The Frogbit isnt quite as healthy as the the earlier photos so I assume this is because I'm not adding ferts, so should I resume adding ferts
I'd syphon up the Cyanobacteria and get rid of any floss or fine sponge in the filter if you can?
@dw1305 why do you suggest removing floss from the filters ?

I have ordered 10 Ambulia to see if that helps but would anyone suggest that I turn off the lighting again for a 5 day period ?
 
Hi all,
@dw1305 why do you suggest removing floss from the filters ?
I did a water change today and although there was not as much algae on the aquarium front glass the sponge filters in the Fluval have just as much black gunk on them.
Because of your "black gunk" comment above. I think that <"some species of BGA (Cyanobacteria)"> are favoured by a higher level of organic compounds and because of this I don't want anything that will trap and retain these compounds in a <"(potentially) low oxygen environment">.

This means for me no mechanical filtration inside the filter body, where <"out of sight" can easily be "out of mind"> as well.

cheers Darrel
 
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Hi all,
the Juwel filter and also the carbon media from the Fluval therefore running both filters without any media
I just have a prefilter and <"a sponge(both coarse sponge)"> and some <"biological media in the filters">. You plants are going to do most of the nitrogen removal for you, both directly and also by providing <"a larger area"> where nitrification can happen in the substrate.
Does this mean removing the carbon, nitrate and coarse / fine sponges from the Juwel filter
Why have you got a nitrate removal sponge? You don't need it, and dependent on the species of cyanobacteria it may actually be <"helping their growth">.

cheers Darrel
 
Sometimes one needs to use the big guns. I would use some antibiotic (if available) but prior to that I would really remove as much of that gunk as you can and also trim BGA infected plants. Usually, BGA is mechanically easy to remove , not like some algae, so you may have luck by simply cleaning the leaves. Also you didn't show a full picture of your tank so it's hard to assess how much planting is going on and this could be a factor in what you are experiencing.

Before adding anything in the tank though, I would let the can recover for some time. You just did a 5 days black out, which is usually something I do not recommend because plants suffer in the process and the black out can in fact jump start a new outbreak of BGA due to poor plant health.

I'm also not sure what your temperatures are but in my experience that's a big kickstarter for BGA. If you can maintain the tank below 27C that would be beneficial.
 
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Also you didn't show a full picture of your tank so it's hard to assess how much planting is going on and this could be a factor in what you are experiencing.

Before adding anything in the tank though, I would let the can recover for some time. You just did a 5 days black out, which is usually something I do not recommend because plants suffer in the process and the black out can in fact jump start a new outbreak of BGA due to poor plant health.
I have NOT vacumned the substrate as yet but I will do if recommended
I have just added 10 stems of Ambulia because a member suggested I should add some fast growing stem plants although they will probably be covered in this algae in a couple of days
I tried a 5 day blackout because it was recommended to me by another member. Sorry about the reflections in the photos. I will take some more this evening
Temperature of tank is 25.8 degrees
Antibiotic ? (what do you suggest) and I would only use is not harmful to the livestock
 

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That is why I'm not keen on <"ready diluted"> fertilisers
So what do you suggest. Ive heard differing stories about TNC Complete & that it can be harmful to the fish ?

I have a Nitrate sponge in the Juwel filter box because that is what Juwel recommend and I have always used themm in my setup
 
You could buy* one more bunch of hornwort, put half in your tank and half in a tub or bucket outside. If you have to bin what's in the tank after a week, you can replace it from the tub; what's in the tub will have doubled by then so you can have a constant supply.

*Unless any-one lives near @kellyboy47 and could give him a bunch?
Apparently it doesn't like being posted.
Thanks might just get some more 👍
 
I just have a prefilter and <"a sponge(both coarse sponge)"> and some <"biological media in the filters">. You plants are going to do most of the nitrogen removal for you, both directly and also by providing <"a larger area"> where nitrification can happen in the substrate
At risk of me sounding thick are you recommending then that I dispense of the nitrate, carbon and rpre-filter floss then 🤔...What I have always found to be confusing is that Juwel recommend using a nitrate sponge but on the other hand I normally add nitrates to the tank with the ferts I use so how does this help ?
 
Hi all,
I have a Nitrate sponge in the Juwel filter box because that is what Juwel recommend..............What I have always found to be confusing is that Juwel recommend using a nitrate sponge but on the other hand I normally add nitrates to the tank with the ferts I use so how does this help ?
Exactly that, you are giving with one hand and taking away with the other.

<"Plants need a lot of fixed nitrogen"> and they are very efficient at converting it into plant material, as soon as you have plants you don't need any other method of removing nitrate (NO3), (other than water changes, <"I still like to change some water">).

When you scoop out a handfull of Frogbit, you've permanently exported that fixed nitrogen.

<"Call me a sceptic">, but I think Juwel recommending a nitrate sponge is just a way of getting some repeat business out of you.
So what do you suggest
TNC complete is fine. In terms of fertiliser I'm using Solufeed 2 : 1 : 4 (<"from earlier in the thread">) and the <"Duckweed Index">. Just add enough fertiliser to <"keep your Frogbit"> looking like it did in this photo.

p1020144-jpg.jpg


Solufeed isn't an aquarium fertiliser, and contains urea (CO(NH2)2), but at £13 a kilo it is a cheapish option.

cheers Darrel
 
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TNC complete is fine. In terms of fertiliser I'm using Solufeed 2 : 1 : 4 (<"from earlier in the thread">) and the Duckweed Index.

It isn't an aquarium fertiliser, and contains urea (CO(NH2)2), but at £13 a kilo it is a cheapish option
Thanks for your advice Darrel. I might go for the TNC Complete then as the Solufeed looks a bit complicated.

I will start reintroducing the macro / micro ferts now then
 
Hi @kellyboy47 got your PM. Apologies, tried condensing the two posts whilst on the move this morning and ended up erasing both. Repost below:

Do you have a full tank shot @kellyboy47 as it didn’t appear in the attachments.

10. Inhabitants. 3 x Blue Acara (Large) 2 x Bolivian Ram, 1 x Rainbowfish, 5 x Corydoras

Any shrimps? Any snails? If not you can treat for cyano effectively, but the stronger treatment most use will be lethal to invertebrates. You can use phytoncide (invertebrate friendly) after manually removing every speck of cyano you can. Harder work, but also effective.

And this is my current lighting period
Dawn 9-10 White 0% Blue 40%
Sunrise 11-1 White 85% Blue 85%
Sunset 5-8 White 5% Blue 40%
Dusk 9-10.30 White 0% Blue 0%

13.5 hours of light requires a healthy setup under those lights. Right now it will be exacerbating the cyano problem, as it is obviously photosynthetic. Longer blackouts are usually ineffective as you weaken plants in that time. If that system is already in detriment, the additional decay from failing plant matter will add to the problem. You switch lights back on, Cyanobacteria divide faster than plants recover. Plus they have everything they need.

As @tam has posted:

There is no point swapping out substrate, it only needs invisible traces to come back. If you search the forum for cyano there are loads of posts on getting rid. It's good to work out why - sometimes it's low flow areas and excess mulm so a good clean and redirecting flow an help. Once it's there though, fixing the initial problem doesn't necessary get rid of it, it tends to hang on.

You want it on the back foot. That is achieved through a well oxygenated system. It exists as there’s an oxygen deficit in your tank. It’s why planting heavy at startup negates a lot of problems, more plants, more photosynthesis, more oxygen. Even your move was a significant event for your tank biome.

Cyano can fix nitrogen and does, to give it credit, produce the oxygen your system needs in absence of photosynthesis from plants. But only to its own benefit. It smothers everything else, coating surfaces so nothing else gets access. It’s a survivor, the survivor in fact, adapting the environment to its needs.

To fight this, within the filter that means maximum flow to your media as @dw1305 has pointed out. This is to provide oxygenated water to your filter media. Anything that impedes that delivery of oxygenated water is again, exacerbating the problem. Less oxygenated water to your nitrifying bacteria, higher ammonia as it isn’t being processed into nitrate. More ammonia and unhealthy plants unable to uptake that ammonia, more issues.

You’re getting it anywhere there’s a meagre amount of light available. It needs removing until the only place it can exist is in the darkest recesses of the substrate, in small colonies where it can be directly dealt with.

There’s already a lot to digest there so will break it down into three simple categories:

  • Maximum manual removal of cyanobacteria
  • Restoring desired healthy plant matter
  • Restoring the system to a well oxygenated state

Practical advice on how to achieve the above in order:

- Maximum manual removal of cyanobacteria

Manual removal by siphon. If using tap water and a mixer tap, you can fill and drain the tank simultaneously by adding periodic doses of dechlorinator. Match the drain rate to the fill rate. This means you can evict the stuff wholesale as you can vacuum up all traces.

- Restoring desired healthy plant matter

Plant up the tank with as much plant mass as you can. Ensure good surface agitation and stick to a fixed lighting schedule and lighting intensity. You want your plants adapted to the rhythm of the day. No curve balls. The consistency sets the plants up.

- Restoring the system to a well oxygenated state

Can’t stress this one enough… If you’re running a low tech tank, surface agitation is your friend. It ensures a reliable, continual and consistent supply of dissolved gases. More rot - provides the required oxygen. Fish dies - provides the required oxygen to break it down. Co2 - keeps it available for plant tissues to uptake. If it’s not needed - maintains equilibrium anyway.

Your substrate age is partly a red herring. You can just dose comprehensively through the water column. The main thing you want is healthy plant root respiration taking place in the substrate, it will make it uncomfortable for the cyano to dominate in the substrate.

If you end up with cyano patches surviving against the glass where there’s light, you can inject treatments into the substrate along the glass to give it a final shove.
 
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