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Base Layer: Tropica Aquacare or ADA Powersand special?

NeilW

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Joined
25 Jun 2009
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Location
Basingstoke, Hampshire
Hello :wave:

Was after some opinions. I currently have a bag of Tropica Aquacare I could use as a base layer in my new nano but while I had the opportunity I was wondering if Powersand Special was worth the monies?

Cheers
-Neil
 
Re: Base Later: Tropica Aquacare or ADA Powersand special?

I have had great success with the ADA powersand special, in every tank i have used it in (3 of my own, plus 3 others i have helped with)

My only comment with the Tropica aquacare is that you have to cap it really well, otherwise it can release a dust cloud like you have never seen, and its very hard to get rid of once this happens.
 
Ditto on the Tropica and clouds, you have to be very careful when moving plants. Never used ADA stuff to compare though.
 
The Tropica substrate does not contain any nutrients whereas the power sand does, it contains mainly KNO3 AFAIR, thats why people have success with it.
 
I used both successfully. More important, in my experience, is the top layer.

The potential clouding issue with the Tropica may be a concern if you plan on re-scaping your layout regularly, especially if you're using big rooters like crypts. However, unless you're performing a massive overhaul, then regular uprooting of the odd plant followed by a decent water change will clear up the clouding no problem.

Power Sand Special is basically peat-covered pumice granules. The 'Special' bit is the extras i.e. Bacter 100, Tourmaline BC and Clear Super. The peat provides lots of nutrients and the hard pumice allows for greater oxygen penetration down there. The other products claim to add bacteria, extra trace elements, and toxin removal. I have to say that in combination with ADA Aqua Soil Amazonia I have never experienced such impressive plant growth rate and health. This is purely anecdotal evidence, of course.

Tropica Plant Substrate is a clay-based product with high CEC (cation exchange capacity) that basically is the ability to take in nutrients from the water column, making them available to the roots. It turns to a mud-like substance as soon as water is added, and as mentioned it will cloud the water if it's disturbed. It may be advisable to cap it well, but I have only covered my latest set-up with Tropica topped with just a flat 4cm of other substrates (EcoComplete, Unipac black and Flourite Black mixed).

Before we get into a big, "is ADA worth the extra cash?" then it's important to know what your top layer is.

If it's ADA Aqua Soil then I'd consider the Power Sand Special.

If it's another type, then I'd go for Tropica.

They both work well, but if you're going for the ADA system, then it can be a go idea to go the 'whole hog', IME. The results cannot be denied.

I hope that helps. :)
 
Excellent, thank you for the helpful replies of your experiences.

My top layer will be Columbo Flora-Base.

I am currently using the Tropica stuff capped with Oliver Knott NS but dose TPN+ regularly so the lack of nutrients wasn't an issue, but this new tank I plan on running low-tech in the long-term so was after a bit of extra 'punch'. I'll be going for a couple of varieties of Crypts so this could act as a 'safety net' of available nutrients.

The clouding issue I found out through hard experience. Definitely not a pretty picture. Fortunately with a large water change and the high turnover of my filter it worked out OK.

Would Powersand special still be suitable to use with Columbo Flora-Base if I'm feeling particularly flush?

Thanks again
-Neil
 
Just to say this thread is really interesting to a 'know-nothing' like me. Following it with interest :thumbup:

Becca
 
Been looking at quite a few setups that just use the Flora Base straight with no base layer with good results. In my intended low-tech nano do you guys think it would still be worth it to go in for the Powersand?

Cheers
-Neil
 
Tom Barr often says no and he has content write ups to quote so I can only say to you that it's not worth it. Tropica would be my choice but it's not needed. I wish I could read the soil sample data, my barr report subscription is long since expired.
 
Osmocoat seems to the best long term option, no cloud, no tacky pulling up pumice gravel later on, no mixing etc, if you want a base layer, and want nutrients, this is the way to go.

ADA aqua soil is a good all in one product, there's little need to add powersand.

This works on it's own,I suppose as a base layer if you like 2 part soils, buyt unless you use the top sand for aesthetics only, then might as well just use 100% ADA AS.

I see no good reason to use ADA power SAND.

I know aqua soil came out long after power sand, guess they wanna keep selling stuff they already have but after a month or less, there's not much left, and then it's a tacky mess waiting to happen. I like to reuse sediment later, ADA As last a long time, drops in N, but that's about it, the rest stays put, the powersand is all gone, everything, in less than a month or so.

It's your money getting washed away :idea:

You know I'm not anti ADA either, I'm promoting one, but not another.
It's what I use personally too.

Regards,
Tom Barr
 
Thanks very much Tom, useful stuff indeed.

I think thats made up my mind. I'll be using the Flora-Base (a similar aquasoil product) with a sprinkling of osmocote if I can get hold of some.

Cheers
-Neil
 
Hi all, Plantbrain wrote:
Osmocote seems to the best long term option, no cloud, no tacky pulling up pumice gravel later on, no mixing etc, if you want a base layer, and want nutrients, this is the way to go.
I'd go with that as well. I know that some people won't agree with me, but I don't think there is any "magic bullet" with substrates in terms of effectiveness. If you have the combinations of nutrients and CEC, your plants will grow, after that it is really all down to aesthetics.

One of the advantage of Osmocote is that it isn't all instantly soluble, so instead of getting a big pulse of nutrients in solution, (which may exceed the CEC & Anion Exchange Capacity of your substrate) it is a controlled release over time. Another advantage is that you know how much of each nutrient you added, rather than estimating from the breakdown of organic matter, or the amount of fertiliser in your John Innes no. 3. etc.

cheers Darrel
 
Sounds like good stuff.

Just had a thought: does osmocote contain any nasties that don't agree with Red Bee shrimp (being sensitive as they are)?

Also would the 'Clear Super' and 'Bacter 100' goodies contained in the Special make it worth it?
 
Hi all,
does osmocote contain any nasties that don't agree with Red Bee shrimp
I've not kept Bee shrimps in tanks with Osmocote in the substrate, but the slow release nature of it should mean that you won't get a big release of ammonia even if the nitrogen source is ammonium nitrate. This is also the reason for having a substrate component with high CEC, it will act as a buffer, absorbing nutrients when they are in excess, and potentially exchanging them later for other ions.

I may depend which formulations of Osmocote you can source easily, but some are meant to have very long nutrient release times (although these won't be as long in the tank).

<http://www.scottsprofessional.co.uk/uk/osmocote-exact.html> possibly <http://www.scottsprofessional.co.uk/uk/standard-high-k-12-14-months.html>

cheers Darrel
 
dw1305 said:
Hi all,
does osmocote contain any nasties that don't agree with Red Bee shrimp
I've not kept Bee shrimps in tanks with Osmocote in the substrate, but the slow release nature of it should mean that you won't get a big release of ammonia even if the nitrogen source is ammonium nitrate. This is also the reason for having a substrate component with high CEC, it will act as a buffer, absorbing nutrients when they are in excess, and potentially exchanging them later for other ions.

Thanks Darrel, that sounds pretty safe. If I pass the garden centre I'll grab some but I'll try and find the slowest release I can :thumbup:

In the 'ideal' Japanese breeding setup for CRS they don't add any ferts so I'm guessing in the planted tank any fertiliser is a risk vs. compromise.
 
Can I hook onto the end of this thread and ask how much Osmocote you use - how thickly you spread it? The links above were for 25Kg bags which seems a vast amount even for a pretty big tank (unless it's a ready alternative to lead weights... ;))

thanks

m
 
I'm sure its meant to be a tiny amount... Something like 5g per square foot... I could be wrong...
 
dw1305 said:
Hi all, Plantbrain wrote:
Osmocote seems to the best long term option, no cloud, no tacky pulling up pumice gravel later on, no mixing etc, if you want a base layer, and want nutrients, this is the way to go.
I'd go with that as well. I know that some people won't agree with me, but I don't think there is any "magic bullet" with substrates in terms of effectiveness. If you have the combinations of nutrients and CEC, your plants will grow, after that it is really all down to aesthetics.

I agree with ya.
100%.

One of the advantage of Osmocote is that it isn't all instantly soluble, so instead of getting a big pulse of nutrients in solution, (which may exceed the CEC & Anion Exchange Capacity of your substrate) it is a controlled release over time. Another advantage is that you know how much of each nutrient you added, rather than estimating from the breakdown of organic matter, or the amount of fertiliser in your John Innes no. 3. etc. cheers Darrel

We used it many years ago, maybe in the 1980's or so here in the USA, but then a new crop of folks come along.......they do not look at what is been done and think it's all new. In the AGA alone, there where dozens of folks that used it.

Some moved more to water column only, I did most to study and look at the water column as a model system to test nutrients/algae. Satisfied with the test, I returned back to sediment source. Now adding sediment + Water column= a very good synergistic method that has the highest level of resiliency/is easy for folks.

No good reason not to add/consider a sediment source. My aesthetics warrant ADA AS alone, nice all in one product that loads with nutrients and is nice looking, easy to move around, move from tank to tank etc and I know what depletes over time in it and other clay soils.

Regards,
Tom Barr
 
NeilW said:
Sounds like good stuff.

Just had a thought: does osmocote contain any nasties that don't agree with Red Bee shrimp (being sensitive as they are)?

Also would the 'Clear Super' and 'Bacter 100' goodies contained in the Special make it worth it?

No, adding plenty of plants and allowing a 2-3 weeks or time to pass prior to adding the shrimp, should be fine.
Plant and bacteria will keep the NH4 down.

Regards,
Tom Barr
 
NeilW said:
dw1305 said:
In the 'ideal' Japanese breeding setup for CRS they don't add any ferts so I'm guessing in the planted tank any fertiliser is a risk vs. compromise.

I've raise and bred CRS as have many using ADA AS which is loaded with NH4.
I've also dosed typical EI and went from 12 to 50 shrimp a in a few months with other fish present.
So seems like there's little risk once the plants/bacteria are established, the rest is manure rubbish adn fear mongering.

I think some of the real issue with hyper sensitivity in these and few other shrimp has to do with POOR breeding and genetics. They inbreed way too much and do not out cross with other lines to produce a nice high grade + a tougher shrimp that can handle a wide range of aquarium parameters.

That is a genetic induced problem, not an environmental one.
the root issue is not the shrimp, it's the terrible ways they inbreed and do not produce a healthy line. Might as well just use colored dye and paint them. :idea:

If it looks pretty and sells, who cares? Not these folks.
Then they blame you and your water parameters.

It's BS.
I'm much more skeptical and wise to this sort of crap, but I was long a breeder before a plant guy.

Regards,
Tom Barr
 
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