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Tank Health Journal

B4M

Member
Joined
24 Sep 2008
Messages
61
I'm going to try a different style of journal here. My tank is suffering from algae and the plants aren't in great condition so I'm going to try and rectify and keep this thread updated to track progress.
Any tips and suggestions along the way will be most welcome!

The tank has been set-up for a couple of years and is largely still based on the original described here:
Original setup journal

In the next post I'll summarise the issues I'm currently battling.

Thks,

B4M
 
I've already made a start trying to resolve but these are photos of the algae as of a week ago. The large bog wood is covered. Mainly BBA but also Stag horn and others.

036vv.jpg


The BBA is also on the slower growing leaves.
074ao.jpg


No these aren't moss balls:
073tt.jpg


In the next post I'll give some stats.

B4M
 
These are the stats. After doing some research made some changes last week. where these changed I've stated was and is parameters.

Tank- 250l corner tank
Light. 2 x 24w t5 plus 250w Metal Halide. However the MH has a dimmer in the ballast. This ranges from pretty dull to very bright. About 2 months ago I moved from no dim to 1/2 dim. Sorry for lack of quantitative value. I'll try to borrow a clamp meter from work to measure the current drawn by MH with dimmer at full, half and max dim from that I can calculate the watts.
After dimming the lights the plant growth slowed considerably. I can't say I noticed much affect on the algae growth.

Photo period was from 14.00 -22.30 weekdays and 12.00 - 22.30 weekend days. I've now reduced this to 16.00-22.30 weekdays and 14.00 - 22.30 weekends.

CO2 is pressurised via a external reactor. I've two drop checkers at each end of tank with 4dKH. Both are lime green. I've recently set timer to bring CO2 on 3 hours before lights rather than 1 hours before.

The filter is a Eheim 2128 at 750 lph. However I have an external CO2 reactor and UV unit so actual flow will be less. This was boosted with a Hydor Koralia 1 power head of reportedly 400 gph. Looking at the overall water/plant movement I recognised flow dead spots and as BBA is often CO2/flow related I added an additional Hydor Koralia 3 last week to give an extra 850 gph. It's not quite a washing machine but certainly the plants have more sway.

I've been dosing an EI all in one and 25ml per day should give:

0.75g KNO3 (this was halved about 18 month ago as my nitrates are already high- 80ppm)
0.8g KH2PO4 (this was doubled about 18 month ago as I read it may help combat GSA)
3.75g MgSO4
0.175g Traces

Looking at the MgSO4 this seems high but digging back it seems I decided in thishere but down know if I was right.

Any thoughts on the stats and particularly if my EI mix may need adjusting?

Thanks,

B4M
 
Last weekend I rolled up the sleeves and gave a good clean.

I removed the bog wood completely. The reason for not cleaning more often was that it was too big to remove without lifting the hood off the tank and that means emptying to 1/4 full and pulling away from wall.

I also scrubbed all the BBA off the rear glass and other hard surfaces. The gravel had lots of balls of BBA but they can be rounded up into a heap by wafting a spoon as they're lighted than regular gravel. I removed a mug full.

I also removed most leaves with BBA.

I suppose I should try to define the poor plant health that I mentioned. One symptom is lots of leaves coming off and floating around the tank. After I reduced the lights growth was significantly less. My Bacopa leaves reduced in size by about 50%.
The hygrophila polysperma used to grow wildly but about over the last year has gradually slowed and is now almost dead. I'm not saying this was down to reduced light as HP does well in low light and mine had started to suffer long before I reduced the light. This photo shows the current plant with bare stalks and just a few top leaves. I've left it in as one of my measures of success from this journal is trying to bring back to health.
089on.jpg


One thing that I have maybe neglected is frequency of water changes and also filter cleans.
It may be an idea to add them as stats on the algae section as I was focusing on CO2 and flow but my issues may have been down to maintenance. I should have been doing a 50% water change ever week but it did often slip to 10 days and sometimes 2 weeks. Would this alone be enough?

Filter cleaning schedules are rarely mentioned but I was shocked when I opened mine this weekend. I hadn't cleaned it for 3 months :oops:. I had left it that long before when plants were healthy and it wasn't too bad. This time probably as plants had been dying it was filthy. I would say it was certainly one of the reasons for my increase in algae over the last few months even with reduced light.

So after a good clean this is the current tank:
084wt.jpg


I'll keep on top of the cleaning and update the journal on progress. Please feel free to comment or give advice or suggestions. I've done some research but don't want to come across like I know what I'm doing as trust me I really don't. With your help I'm hopeful I can achieve an algae free tank! :thumbup: :D

B4M
 
Oooh there's definitely too much light, for too long and your filter is not powerful enough to circulate the water flow in the tank. I think in your case lighting should be set to less than 7-8 hours a day to start with, you might even wanna consider a blackout for a couple of days or even a week. Too much light in terms of wattage is an even dangerous game, this potentially hides an enourmous algae break disaster, which is what happened to you. 2wpg is normally a good middle, though it is dependable on too many circumstances to list here. Make sure you dose a plant fertiliser according to label as well.

I think that's about it, if I suddenly come up with something else i'll sure post it.
Until then you've got a lot of work to do! Good luck and get back to us with your progress.
 
I'm hoping I now have sufficient flow:

Filter pump output is actually stated as 1050 l/h but filter circulation stated at 750 l/h.here
So if I take the lower figure and add the 400gph of the Hydor Koralia 1 and the 850gph of the Hydor Koralia 3 that's a total flow of about 1400 gph for a 50 gallon tank so about 28 times tank volume per hour. Adding the HK 3 last week has made a big difference and no more dead spots.

I'll keep the lights dimmed but I've never had them at full brightness so the 250W bulb rating may be a bit deceiving.

B4M
 
Sorry missed the hydor. Even filter ratings for circulation are often higher than in practice, but given your hydor you should have enough.

Some reef keepers might use a 250 on a tank that size if they were growing stony corals some of which demand 300 PAR, but for planted tanks 100 PAR is at the top end for the most light demanding sp. Even so many of these plants thrive at much lower levels if circulation, co2 and NPK and micro nutrients are right. Dimming though maybe fine.
 
Update on progress. At the weekend I did a 50% water change and some more cleaning. Removing the BBA from gravel is tedious but I'm getting there.

I don't think much, if any BBA, was new but it's hard to tell. So I've taken a few reference shots to compare against in future weeks. This shell and corner were both previously areas prone to algae.
tankphotosmay2010005.jpg
tankphotosmay2010007.jpg




I've reduced the light photoperiod to 16.00-22.30 (6 1/2 hrs) 7 days a week.
I also played with the light settings and although I can't give a figure in watts the photos below illustrate the reduction that can be achieved. I've left it at the lowest setting with T5s off and MH at lowest setting.

MH set highest with T5 on:
mhhight5may2010022.jpg


MH set lowest and T5 on:
mhlowt5may2010023.jpg


MH set highest T5 off:
mhonlyhighmay2010021.jpg


MH set lowest T5 off (as currently set):
mhonlylowmay2010020.jpg
 
Well here's an update on progress.
I haven't updated regularly as I had planned but have been keeping on top of maintenance and taking photos of progress. I'm sure you'll forgive me as a journal on water changes and how much algae was removed is a bit dull compared to the aquascaping journals! However looking back at the original photos it shows me that I have made considerable progress on the algae front but possibly at the detriment to the plants.

The lights have been left with MH turn to lowest and T5 off (last photo from 25th May post).
Photo period 6 hours per day.

Tank on 17th June:
039rr.jpg

I had thinned out the valis in the corners but not pruned other plants apart from removing some crypt leaves that had some BBA

Tank on 24th June:
082a.jpg

The Heteranthera zosterifolia (rear right) that had grown well under the higher light was only healthy at the tips and the lower part was dying. I therefore replanted the tops and removed the rest. No other plants were pruned apart from removing any affected leaves.

Tank on 30th June:
093r.jpg

Nothing pruned.

Tank today (12th July):
142rb.jpg

I'm just back from 10 days holiday and this is it with nothing touched. The Wisteria (rear left) has grown but the rest of the plants haven't really grown.
155t.jpg

The HZ has grown a little leggier and the Hygro Poly is looking very sad. I did say that getting it back to health was one of my targets otherwise I'd have ripped it out.
In the photo above you can see the BBA is returning around the base of the Hydor and on the glass. This is at the very back so hasn't been touched since the first clean but shows that the BBA is not completely eradicated.

Any thoughts on plant health and what I should do as a next step? I can't understand why Hygrophila polysperma won't grow. Is it possible that the plant has just got too old (about 2 years)?

thanks B4M
 
Hi
You have made good progress in combating your algae problems.
Firstly I would do more water changes to try and reduce the nitrate levels... gravel clean your substrate weekly.
Remove all affected leaves of algae, increase your plant mass within the aquarium use fast growing plants like Valli's/sagittarius for the moment.
Secondly I would remove your hygro and use it as a floating plant to diffuse the lighting also add more floating plants like riccia/water lettuce.
Thirdly Review your dosing routine...? Its not a good idea to have trace mixed in with the other fertilizers.
Why daily... Dose ferts 3 times a week. Dose trace 2 times a week Tuesday and Thursday T = Trace, 1 rest day, 1 day aquarium husbandry routine.
Start on a lower EI dose 50% less than normal then increase as your plant mass grows... Clean your filter regularly for good flow.This worked for me when setting up a new aquarium it may not be the same for you as my lighting is different.
Its about getting the balance right for your unique aquarium and tweaking your feeding(EI ratios) to keep your plants healthy.
You have been dosing EI with no routine water changes to remove WASTE and re-set your aquarium this is a bad idea, and with your lighting levels this is a recipe for a algae disaster as you've experienced.
Use your t5s only 6 hours a day.
Look at this topic its long but there is some valuable information in there......
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=12067
Regards
hoggie
 
hogan53 said:
Hi
You have made good progress in combating your algae problems.
Firstly I would do more water changes to try and reduce the nitrate levels... gravel clean your substrate weekly.
Remove all affected leaves of algae, increase your plant mass within the aquarium use fast growing plants like Valli's/sagittarius for the moment.
Secondly I would remove your hygro and use it as a floating plant to diffuse the lighting also add more floating plants like riccia/water lettuce.
Thirdly Review your dosing routine...? Its not a good idea to have trace mixed in with the other fertilizers.
Why daily... Dose ferts 3 times a week. Dose trace 2 times a week Tuesday and Thursday T = Trace, 1 rest day, 1 day aquarium husbandry routine.
Start on a lower EI dose 50% less than normal then increase as your plant mass grows... Clean your filter regularly for good flow.This works for me it may not be the same for you as my lighting is different.
You have been dosing EI with no routine water changes to remove WASTE and re-set your aquarium this is a bad idea, and with your lighting levels this is a recipe for a algae disaster as you've experienced.
Use your t5s only 6 hours a day.
Look at this topic its long but there is some valuable information in there......
http://www.ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=12067
Regards
hoggie

Im frid i have to second hoggies advice, You have cetain factors right and they will be on your side, But there are things hoggie has pointed out that you need to address. I would start with placeing them fast nutrient sucking plants in, There very cheap in and lfs, They dont need to be pritty ones as they are being used to serve a purpos. :thumbup:

Maybe an idea would be also to use some kind of teresrial plant emersed with its roots within the substrate? Not sure if im right or even if it will help. I just remember reading somewhere that a plant rooted but with it foliage emersed can produce great levels of oxgen down near its roots within the substrate wich in turn forces nastes within the substrate that also cause blooms. Sorry if thats a loud of useless rubbish!! Just a thought. "Cant remember the sorce that came from!"

You still doing great! :thumbup:
 
hogan53 said:
Look at this topic its long but there is some valuable information in there......
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=12067

Very interesting to me as a nube, thanks for providing link and advice.

Logic tells me that as I have high CO2 and very high flow increasing the light and increasing the dosing should increase plant growth.
However it appears that I need to flip that around. My plants are not growing (for reasons that escape me). Therefore I am putting in more light than is being used by the plants so there is excess energy which algae can use. Also as the plants aren't growing dosing full EI is adding more nutrients than is required. (although whether this is a issue seems to be contentious)

So I think I've just about got my head around the reasoning and I need to reduce my light further, add more bio mass and reduce dosing while keeping on top of the algae removal and cleaning.

When the bio mass increases and plant health improves hopefully the BBA will lose out to the plants and will stop growing. At that point I may be able to increase the light gradually and provided I have sufficient CO2 and ferts the algae should be kept at bay.

Am I on the right track?

Thanks for help and encouragement.

B4M
 
Hi
In my opinion your on the right track,some people don't advocate reducing you fertilizer routine,but i think your aquarium needs it as it doesn't have a huge amount of plants.
Anyway you are reducing your lighting so your existing plants wont need as much ferts.
The holy grail we are after is balance,this is all achieved by good house keeping, I must stress again your aquarium needs to be clean to achieve your goals with no organic waste and regular cleaning.
Good flow and adequate Co2....ferts/trace elements regular water changes are all part of that balance.
High lighting with no set house keeping routine causes algae.
This is why I advocate using floating plants in a high light aquarium if your routine is erratic or on starting up a new aquarium.It gives you more of a safe guard against algae.I don't know why.... it just does.
Also a much larger external filter is needed to remove waste products from aquarium 750lph is definitely not adequate enough.
Look at this guide
http://www.aquariumalgae.blogspot.com/
Re evaluate your fertilizer/trace dosing routine for your new changes.
Keeping your plants looking healthy is your first step to shifting the various algae from your aquarium.
You can try to increase growth a few months down the line after you have a balanced aquarium.
Regards
hoggie
 
hogan53 said:
Also a much larger external filter is needed to remove waste products from aquarium 750lph is definitely not adequate enough.

Most literature states the filter to be 1050 lph so not sure why my original reference gave a second lower figure. From specs here it's not a small unit at 11l canister volume. They state for tanks up to 600l but I know that don't apply to planted tanks.
However in a health balanced tank the filter should not need to remove rotting plant waste. I'm going to continue to try to fix the root of the issue which is why plants are rotting rather than specing a filter size needed to remove them.
I'm making progress as during this week's clean the filter had less dead plant matter.

Latest photo as of 21st July:

002xc.jpg


I added some plants after this weekend's clean. 3 bunches of assorted stems from LFS. Looking reasonably healthy so hopefully they won't melt.
003zjt.jpg


As I've finished the last of my all in one fert mix I decided to have a change. I've mixed up separate macro and traces mixes this time based on Jame's guide:EI Explained

Macro mix
66g Potassium Nitrate
14.4g Potassium Phosphate
20g Epsom salts
500ml water

I've added Epsom salts as I don't know what magnesium is in the water supply and I'd already bought 2Kg of the stuff from e-bay!

Dose 25ml every other day should add:
8.1 ppm Nitrate
5.9 ppm Potassium
2.1 ppm Phosphate
0.4 ppm Magnesium
If I've used James' dosing calculator right.

Trace mix
10g of Aqua essentials trace mix
250ml water
dose 12.5ml every other day

I may drop to half EI dosing but haven't yet decided. I'll watch to see how the new plants do.

B4M
 
Hi B4M
That's a nice filter you got there your looking for a turnover of a least 2,500l an hour as you have a 250 litre aquarium that's the 10x rule.Forgot you had a couple internal Koralias so turnover is good.
I just had a look at your dosing stats
Here is a few points to look at as you have increased your plant mass.
1 Your dosing to much phosphate 4.81ppm should be approx 1-3ppm, at the moment.
2 Your potassium level is to low. 14.19 should be approx 20-30ppm.
3 Your magnesium level is to low 0.9 should be approx 10-15ppm.
4 Use potassium sulphate to raise potassium levels.
5 Nitrate is just below 20ppm seems okay.
Regards
hoggie
 
"Filter cleaning schedules are rarely mentioned but I was shocked when I opened mine this weekend."
:)
That actualy biggest Yours problem - amonia and organic wastes + real 250w MH light bomb in Yours tank.
If even dimmed to 125w MH in tank hood is very very high light intensity , people keep 1m more over tank mh luminaires and get good results.
I clean my filters every week or every second week and there is tonns of waste due high stock.
+ with Yours ferts regime You add more and more wastes in Yours tank.
I keep low light still now 2-3 motnhs from setup and give only Potasium K2so4 and micro-traces, nothing more, from fish wastes is enough Nitrates and phophorus i add once a week 0.2ppm, but i think from fish waste is too enough.
Need many many months from setup establish fully system and fishes need add slowly and tank keep with low lights some months. Read posts in forum, a lot of posts from ceg and other good experts about new setup, how need start step by step.
From one very small fish is tonns and tonns of waste :D
Mgso4 recommended if low levels in tap Mg. Choose best food for Your fish. I actualy after 2 months fighting with wastes changed all food to absolutely different - good. I refused all ebay cheap quality foods and now feed fish only with brand algea wfers, frozen bloodworms, some other froozen foods from lfs, good brand only foods.
Almost all cheap foods is on emulgators with soya, there more waste as goods. And reduce fish feeding to minimum.
Ff economy You can give simply cheap natural oats :), clean food rich with amino acids but not recommended cheap ebay pellets.

Good Luck and care Tank wastes out !
Best Regards,
 
hogan53 said:
I just had a look at your dosing stats
Here is a few points to look at as you have increased your plant mass.
1 Your dosing to much phosphate 4.81ppm should be approx 1-3ppm, at the moment.
2 Your potassium level is to low. 14.19 should be approx 20-30ppm.
3 Your magnesium level is to low 0.9 should be approx 10-15ppm.
4 Use potassium sulphate to raise potassium levels.
5 Nitrate is just below 20ppm seems okay.
Regards
hoggie

Hmm EI would be a little less confusing if everyone agreed.

Quote from James' EI guide:
What ppm Values Do I Need?
What amount of nutrient you wish to add depends on your dosing schedule but if dosing Estimative Index then here is a general guide:
8ppm of Nitrate which is added 3x a week
2ppm of Phosphate which is added 3x a week
unquote

Is dosing 6ppm Phosphate weekly going to be an issue?
More confusingly if I use James' calculator to work out Ceg's Phosphate based on 1/16th tsp KH2PO4 for 20Gal tank it comes out at 3.8ppm 3 times a week so over 11ppm a week. Much more than the target of 3ppm. Maybe I'm using it wrong.


Arty- Thanks for tips.

Photo after yesterday's clean.

014iv.jpg
 
Hi,
Stop worrying about ppm. It doesn't matter what anybody says about target ppms. Only listen to your tank. I never tell people to adhere to this ppm or that ppm. That's how we get into trouble and you are absolutely right, it would be less confusing if everyone agreed. We each have a set of baseline numbers. It doesn't matter if you start with mine or with James' or with anyone else. Pick a set of numbers and use them. Then let your tank tell you what you need. Plants will display what they need by showing poor performance, discolouration, deformation, or algae. If you're not having these issues then there is no need to change. If you are having problems then you need to pay attention and add more of one thing or another. That's how EI works. EI was not invented by the ppm Nazi. Do as you please and make adjustments along the way. If you don't like the PO4 dosing then change the 3X dosing to 1/64th teaspoon. The fractions get crazy. There is a huge range of nutrient levels that will be satisfactory, so just use the baseline teaspoon values and get on with it.

Cheers,
 
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