Ratio between Liters / Lumens

[gabriel.basso]

Hello UKAPS friends,

Congratulation you have one of the best planted forums I've seen so far! This is my first topic here and I'm sure I have a lot to learn with you. Sorry for my english, it´s not my native language (I'm from Brazil).

I'm starting a new planted tank project. Its a 120 l tank, heavily planted, CO2 injection and 4x24W T5 Lighting (2xOsram Skywhite + 2xOsram HO 840).

I've got a question related to the ideal ratio between Lumens and Liters for planted tanks... I've seen some people say that 70 to 90 lm/l would be the ideal range for getting the best plants growth rate and good health. Is it true? What do you think about it?

Another issue that I'd like to understand is about the color temperature (K) of the light we use on planted tanks.. I've read that aquatic plants absorbs light above 6500K.. Is that so? What happens when you combine different color temperatures? Lets say 1 light bulb of 8000K combined with another of 4000K... Is it the same thing of having 2 x 6000K (8000 + 4000 /2)?

I know its a newbie question... but I'd really appreciate if you help me understanding these issues.

Best regards,

Gabriel

 

[ceg4048]

Hello, and welcome to the forum!

100w T4 is quite a bit of light for a 120L tank. I would suggest that you disable 2 of the bulbs when you start the tank.

There have been a few discussions regarding similar questions. A common theme among the following links is that;

1) Lumens are not relevant.
2) There is no such thing as best or ideal light.
3) Kelvin temperature ratings of bulbs is an illusion and is not relevant.

Click and read the following thread links:

The 'right' light wattage?

Please look - good for plants ?

Aquarium fish tank marine metal halide lighting 400w

Bit lost in the Luminaire Jungle, new Project

Cheers,

 

[gabriel.basso]

Thanks for the welcome CEG!

Wow !! I've just realized how much ignorant I am when talking about lighting...
Those links were very useful, I found some top class information there!
Guess I'm starting to see the light now just starting...

But, back to my tank:

I would suggest that you disable 2 of the bulbs when you start the tank

I'll follow your advice and start the tank with 50W. In your opinion do you think that after the tank stabilizes(1 or 2 months) I can turn the other 50W lights on?

FYI I'm planning to keep in this tank: Glosso, Tenellus, Blyxa Japonica, Anubia Nana, Rotalla Rotundifolia and Green, Microsorum (Pteropus, Windelov and Narrow). And, until I get the money to buy a pressurized CO2 equipment, I'll have to use Chemical CO2 (HCl + NaHCO3 = CO2 + H2O), very simillar to the Yeast method, but cleaner I guess.

thanks for your help again

Cheers,

Gabriel

 

[ceg4048]

Hi Gabriel,
Well, as mentioned in the other threads, as long as you can support the high energy levels with proper CO2 and flow then there really is virtually no restriction. The problem for you is that organic CO2 production methods are poor substitutes for gas injection and you may wish to augment via liquid carbon. Even with gas injection, sometimes a little bit of liquid carbon is necessary. Generally, if you want to stay out of trouble with algae, it's best to keep the lighting low until you can optimize CO2 and flow. Blyxa and Glosso, for example have a heavy demand for good CO2 and flow. I would preoccupy myself with these parameters first. Lighting is a distant second place. As I said, when you learn proper CO2 and flow techniques, then you will be able to use as much light as you desire.

Cheers,

 

[gabriel.basso]

Hi CEG,

I got the point and totally agree with you. I'm planning to use Chemical CO2 only for a couple of months while I manage to buy an used extinguisher and the rest of the equipments at ebay. More than the incomparable performance and constant CO2 flow, with gas injection running I'll get rid of the ungratefull tasks of changing HCl an bicarbonate every couple weeks :? !!!

Talking about the water flow, I feel comfortable with my filter. Its an old Fluval 304 wich I used 10 years ago on an African Cichlids tank. I made some tests and it is still running like a new one (changed only the o'ring). This filter has an output of 1000 liters per hour, it means 10 times the tank volume. I guess it will do the job properly.

cheers!

 

[vauxhallmark]

And, until I get the money to buy a pressurized CO2 equipment, I'll have to use Chemical CO2 (HCl + NaHCO3 = CO2 + H2O)
Gabriel

How are you planning to control that?

Mark

 

[bigmatt]

I'm sure someone else will bring it up but 10x is the MINIMUM recommended for flow in the planted tank - you're 200lph short! From hard personal experience it's always better to go for overkill on the flow as once you've added in filter media, hardscape in the tank and plants interupting the flow you often need a lot more than you'd think (i'm only just happy with my flow and i'm running at a little short of 20x tank volume per hour). Your filtration will be adequate with a 304 but you might want to add in a koralia or think about a bigger external if you don't like gear in the tank to ensure all the gassy goodness is getting everywhere you want it to go!
Welcome to the wonderful world of UKAPS!
Matt

 

[gabriel.basso]

How are you planning to control that?

Mark

Hi Mark,

This is a DIY CO2 Project that some friends in Brazil are using with success. I've tested it once and IMO is cleaner and more efficient than using yeast. Let me try to explain in a few words how it works.

To make it happen we use 3 bottles conected by a hose (b1 to b2, b2 to b3 and b3 to the tank):
b1 - Solution of HCl 37% (Hydrochloric acid) and water;
b2 - NaHCO3 Solution (Sodium bicarbonate; Baking Soda) and water;
b3 - Just water (work as a Bubble Counter and System Security).
After the b3 bottle there is a needle valve to control the CO2 flow. The system must be really sealed to avoid gas leakage, otherwise it won't work properly.

The idea is to create pressure inside the system squeezing b1 and dropping some HCl in the basic solution, then after the system is pressurized the reaction will work "on demand". Every time the needle valve is closed, the HCl solution stops dropping and the reaction stops. Once you open the valve, HCl will restart dropping in NaHCO3 solution and CO2 starts flowing again.

Despite the risks of dealing with a stong acid (definitely not recomended for children ), the best thing of using this method is that you can "turn on and off" anytime you want (can't fo that with yeast method).

Have I made myself clear? I hope so... sorry for my grammar .

cheers!

 

[gabriel.basso]

I'm sure someone else will bring it up but 10x is the MINIMUM recommended for flow in the planted tank - you're 200lph short! From hard personal experience it's always better to go for overkill on the flow as once you've added in filter media, hardscape in the tank and plants interupting the flow you often need a lot more than you'd think (i'm only just happy with my flow and i'm running at a little short of 20x tank volume per hour). Your filtration will be adequate with a 304 but you might want to add in a koralia or think about a bigger external if you don't like gear in the tank to ensure all the gassy goodness is getting everywhere you want it to go!
Welcome to the wonderful world of UKAPS!
Matt

Hi Matt!
Wow, thought I was ok with 10x ! I have a submersible pump that is not in use... maybe it'll help to increase the flow. I agree that all this water flow and movement help to spread CO2 to every point of the tank but how about the fishes? They will have to swim against the stream 24x07

Anyway, thanks a lot for the advice Matt, I'll figure out a solution.

Cheers,