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A tentative plan for self sufficiency

BigTom

Member
Joined
1 May 2009
Messages
2,281
Location
Edinburgh
Right... this may turn into a wall of text, so please bear with me!

I gave up fishkeeping about a year ago due to starting a PhD which involves being away from home for 6 weeks at a time, 4 times a year. However, I've recently started thinking if there was a way I could run something lowtech and self-sustaining that could tick along happily without me - now I know there's always going to be a risk of somethin unforseen happening, but I do have flatmates who could step in should everything explode or something :lol:

I've drawn a lot of inspiration from this site - http://www.tuncalik.com/2009/09/biotope-in-my-study/ which I originally found when I previously kepy scarlet badis.

Basic idea is a shallow tank, something like 90x90x30cms, probably custom made unless I can find an old terrapin tank or something, with a vaguelly asian biotope.

Filtration by emergent and 'boggy' plants (I'm thinking quite a lot of purple bamboo and similar grass-like plants, plus whatever else I come across that might fit in), some water circulaiton from a koralia powerhead or similar. Would like to try and encorporate a hairgrass lawn (yeah I know, might be getting over-ambitious here!), so was thinking about getting a cheap old single 150w MH arcadia pendant off ebay and doing a dry start, could then raise the light much higher once flooded to cover the emergent plants and hopefully not cause massive algae problems.

Once flooded, seed the tank with a bunch of inverts - daphnia, gammarus, shrimp, blackworms etc to act as food for a group of Dario dario (Scarlet badis) or other micropredator to be introduced further down the line. WIll add plenty of leaf-litter to keep the inverts going and encorporate a small refugium hidden amongst the plants and hardscape at the back to try and prevent complete wipeout once the fish are in.

Would also be keen to add some freshwater gobies if (when!) I end up with algae growth. Will slowly increase fish stock to try and find a balance with the inverts/algae.

Biggest problem will presumably be water loss through plant uptake and evaporation... I'm hoping covering the tank with acrylic with holes cut out and overed with clear plastic domes where the plants emerge will keep it in check while away, I'm sure I could ask my flatmates to top up the water occaisionally.

Does all this seem feasible or have I gone completely mad? :lol:

I'm a little worried about balancing nutients for the plants - was planning on using topsoil/garden soil capped with sand, any advice here would be hugely appreciated. I'm not going self-sufficient for the sake of it, so can happily dose when I'm home if needed.
 
Daryl posted a link to that tuncalik site a few months ago, I find it really inspirational too :)

Your idea seems perfectly feasible to me.

Like you say it is a balancing act, not just nutrient wise, but the tank as a whole.
To make the balancing act easier you could...

- not add any light at all.
- not add any fish at all (just inverts).
- add a filter. (with the low bioload it will rarely need cleaning, it is then easy to get it down to every few months between cleanings).

Not saying you should do this rather than your plan, just putting out another thought on it.

I actually really like your plan 8)

Dy start with a halide sounds cool. Not sure how the carpet would fare long term in uber low tech, but kudos to you if you give it a go :clap:

and the refugium is a cool idea. (It is something I'd like to try one day myself, so this strikes a chord).

Except for the domes for the emergent plants, they sound like an eyesore. Could you have a cover glass for part of the tank, let the emergent's poke out, work out the 'standard' evaporation rate and ask your housemates to 'water the plants' for you?

For the submersed plants I recommend ferns and swords, I have found (in a low light low co2 environment) when their is a lack of nutrients they just stop growing and start again when they appear again. They get a little GSA, but other than that as long as the tank is stable they are pretty much bullet proof ;)

I've also seen a few secondhand terrapin tanks on ebay ;)
 
Thanks for the feedback Matt.

The tank cover would only be in place when I was away, and as the tank will be in my room it isnt an eyesore for anyone except the fish. As long as the extra humidity doesnt knobble the emergent plants then it shouldn't be an issue.

Defintely want to have fish, even if its super-light stocking levels. Afraid I'm a fishkeeper first and gardener second!

I guess no reaosn not to have a filter really, although I don't see there being much need for one, and the lighting regime will be very much trial and error - if nothing else the MH should keep my chilly Edinburgh room warm in winter :p

Hopefully should be able to get this rolling in early October (I'm away on fieldwork til then), would give me about a month to dry start before adding water and inverts.
 
The cover sounds like a good idea now :thumbup: :lol:
I do not know about the extra humidity... I guess it may depend on the plant species chosen.
Maybe someone with experiental knowledge could jump in to comment on that.

If you go ahead with this, I look forward to hearing updates...
 
Pretty set on this now, although if anyone has any further input it'd be appreciated.

Away soon on fieldwork til end of September, but hopefully will su a journal thread after that.

BTW Matt, how are your chocs doing? They're one of the species I was considering for this project, but think it might add another layer of difficulty.
 
I keep them in blackwater conditions... I change the almond leaves in the filter out every couple of weeks, WC's weekly with pure RO. Maintaining a TDS of around 100 and keeping the plants healthy (or even just alive at times :shh: ) is challenging.

Probably not a good choice for a tank left to it's own devices for long periods of time!

Thanks for asking about the ones in my tank :)
The original batch I bought are doing fantastic. I added another batch a couple of weeks ago, and it will take them a few weeks to settle in... a couple of them are struggling at the moment. Gory details in my journal.
 
Hi all,
I'm away from home and have limited web access, but I think it is quite feasible. I'd have a filter, how about a hamburg matten filter? or just a big foam block and powerhead? I also think Dario spp. or Trichopsis pumila (if you have a heater) or any of the smaller Betta sp. would be ideal fish. I think you will need a cover for when you are away, and I think a lawn is too ambitious, dry start may be all right, but I'd probably go lower light and a moss carpet. I would stay away from Gobies because of their higher O2 requirement (I'd go for shrimps and snails). I kept Paradise Fish in the water tank in the glasshouse (open topped and full of Cyperus plants) for many years. They survived total neglect when I was away from work for 16 weeks following emergency surgery, but not a contractor turning the heating off when it was -12oC outside.

cheers Darrel
 
Well, this is go!

Custom 36"W x 12"H x 36"D braceless tank ordered and due in 2 weeks, and I've got a preliminary plant list and scape planned out, and a 70W halide on the way (£20 off ebay).

Planning on using John Innes or similar as the substrate, but not sure what to cap it with. Need something cheap and 'soily' looking.

Still need to decide whether to put a filter in, I was planning on just adding a Koralia evolution for some nice broad flow, but perhaps a mattenfilter is a good idea. Any recommendations for a silent powerhead?
 
BigTom said:
Well, this is go!

Great :D

BigTom said:
Still need to decide whether to put a filter in, I was planning on just adding a Koralia evolution for some nice broad flow, but perhaps a mattenfilter is a good idea. Any recommendations for a silent powerhead?

How about a Koralia in combo with an air driven sponge filter (or 2 for redundancy when cleaning them)?
This is what i am considering for my next tank in the hopes that it gives a good combo of flow and filtration for a low wattage and small footprint in the tank :)
 
Hi all,
Planning on using John Innes or similar as the substrate, but not sure what to cap it with. Need something cheap and 'soily' looking.
I'd probably go for the Moler clay "Tesco lightweight cat litter" from "Robthecop"s thread <http://ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=13018> I think whatever you cap it with will end mixed with the soil over time.

I would probably mix the JI with some sand or other inert substance, otherwise I think you will have a really big ammonia spike initially and it will take a long time to settle down. I like a fairly lean mix, but I use 80 - 90% silica sand and 5 -10% leaf litter and loam based media.
air driven sponge filter (or 2 for redundancy when cleaning them)?
I'd definitely go for 2 sponge filters. I'd probably combine the filtration and water movement roles, and use a maxijet & ppi10 sponge details here <http://ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=8524&hilit=+maxijet>.

cherrs Darrel
 
Hi..

It is a great idea, and I am actually trying something very similar, with a 50cm by 30cm by 30cm acrylic tray. For the plants use Hygro's, humidity is not an issue for them, as long as they have wet roots, they are happy. Also Draecena, and Syngonium's, they grow well with just wet roots.

For filter, you can use aquaball, from eheim, they are very good, and if you only come home once a month, clean it then. :)

If you setup plants at the back with some mesh next to it, the shrimps, worms et all, can survive while still provide some food for the fish.

Your flatmates could top up the water lost to evaporation every two days or so, and the tank would be ticking along just fine.
 
Here is a similar thread which had some good feedback. http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/gener ... sible.html

Do you have a source for the small invertebrates you'll be adding, such as daphnia and cyclops? I'm looking for some myself for a slightly similar tried, and just tried growing a sample from my pond but all that came from that was some dodgy looking worms.
 
Hi Mxx,

This tank has now been running for 9 months (you can see progress in the journal here - http://ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f= ... &start=130).

Currently supporting 4 otos, 7 Bororas maculata and 6 Parosphromenus sp. 'sintang'.

I found that cylcops and various other inverts arrived all on their own, I've added a bunch of different daphni and ostracods from various sources (friends on forums, and there's a guy who operates a business called 'Daphnia Direct'). The most successful things seems to have been some little black ostracods, I have no idea where they came from, but they're all over the floating plants and wood. The baby cherry shrimp are also an important food source for the Paros, I believe.
 
Hi all,
The most successful things seems to have been some little black ostracods, I have no idea where they came from, but they're all over the floating plants and wood.
Ostracods appear in the most unlikely places, I've had them re-appear in trays etc that haven't had water in them for several years. I believe that they can survive as a mixture of "dehydrated juveniles", "encysted adults" and as eggs. Your ones may be the famous Eucypris virens <http://my.opera.com/Ukwildlife/blog/ostracod-eucypris-virens>, I often get them in the Daphnia buckets.

Are you back in Edinburgh? if you are I'll try and send some more of the "unknown shrimps" next week, hopefully with a bit more success than last time.

Darrel
 
Hi Tom, I noticed your post on plantedtank.net, which is quite an active forum as well. One of the links provided in that thread had been one for this store http://www.aquaculturestore.com/fwinverts.html which have different invertebrate species available, including a Freshwater Plankton mix consisting of 6 different species of invertebrates.

I'd been considering doing a similar 13 gallon tank/bowl, and had thought of ordering that mix in order to get an initial food source available to the fauna. Ebay has some large acrylic spheres available, for use as lights but which I expect I could retrofit for fish and add a small spotlight and heater to.

I was considering doing it either of two ways - one vessel with small similar fish such as Endlers and Badis, as well as shrimp, in the hopes that Endlers would be able to in part subsist off the algae and that the Badis would help keep the Endlers and shrimp population in check. And I was also considering sealing the top instead and having just Hawaiian Volcano Shrimp or Cherry Shrimp, which would mainly subsist off the plant and algae growth I believe. In that way I wouldn't need to top off, and all that I'd need to do is add light or put it in a window. I expect the invertebrates and plants would necessarily achieve some sort of balance between oxygen and CO2 production and usage, potentially allowing each to thrive and providing more CO2 to the plants than they'd be able to obtain in an open vessel or tank.

At the moment I have a trial with four 5 litre jars which I'm going to test out in various states, sealed and unsealed, high plant bioload and low, and topsoil substrate or not, to see how each fairs. But they're in my office which isn't heated particularly well, so I'm about to pick up a reptile heating mat to put underneath them for the winter. If I can get them to a stable state then I might try to add some shrimp to those as well. I think I'll need to include at least a nerite snail if I want the container to stay clean, but worry that they'll be competing then against the shrimp for available algae...

But please do let me know if I could perhaps share a sample of your invertebrate mix as well, so that I wouldn't need to buy that from the other side of the planet!
 
Hi all,
And I was also considering sealing the top instead and having just Hawaiian Volcano Shrimp or Cherry Shrimp, which would mainly subsist off the plant and algae growth I believe. In that way I wouldn't need to top off, and all that I'd need to do is add light or put it in a window. I expect the invertebrates and plants would necessarily achieve some sort of balance between oxygen and CO2 production and usage, potentially allowing each to thrive and providing more CO2 to the plants than they'd be able to obtain in an open vessel or tank.
I wouldn't recommend any sealed container, the Hawaiian Volcano shrimps (Halocaridina rubra) don't really live in the sealed "Ecospheres", they are just really tough and die slowly. In a normal 13 gallon tank you should be able to keep a population of a small fish species and RCS as long as you have a lot of plants and some biofilm development, probably with moss being the most important. Small tanks are inherently unstable and more dificult to manage.

I'd probably go for Dario dario or Trichopsis pumila, but Threadfin Rainbows, Pseudepiplatys annulatus, the small Anabantanoid species, Corydoras pygmaeus etc. would do. I wouldn't go for Endlers as you won't be able to keep them in check.

cheers Darrel
 
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