after some advice on set-up please

[alan_uk]

hi everyone

right were do i start
firstly i just found out after measuring my tank that its actually 6 foot long x 18" high x 18" deep

us gallons is 101
uk gallons is 84

next question is does the watts per gallon go on uk or us

now the tank is only going to be low tech as i dont have the time for lots of maintenance really and dont want to run before i can walk either as i have had 1 failed attempt already

now

im going to use sand substrate as i prefer the look over anything else and plus the tank already has sand in there using wood and river rock as hardscape which is how im happy with at the min

i have a eheim 2236 external
and fluval 4+ internal

400 watt heater

now lighting

i am going to buy a t5ho 54w twin light starter unit
and was going to go for 2 865 osram 54w daylight white 6500k bulbs

but the only size i can find is 48" bulbs so will be double ad the centre but 2 foot of each end will only be 1 single bulb

are these bulbs adequate for low light low tech tank with the 4ft bulbs or is there a longer 5 or 6 foot bulb of the same 54 watt ??

next question is should i bother with co2 as i was not wanting to use ferts either

if co2 would be better i have got a 7kg welding bottle full for £20 so if i did go for this what would i need in the way of a regulator and what not ?? could anyone advise

i know its a lot of questions but i really do nee the help please if anyone could

plants im wanting to grow are

java fern needle and normal
anubius nana
weeping moss
amazon sword
crypt wendtii (brown)
hornwort
styrogene
ludwigia repens
Rotala rotundifolia
water lettuce
and maybe another type of crypt

thankyou for any help

 

[Brenmuk]

I think i'm right in saying it is watts per US gallons.

You have to think carefully about adequate plant nutrition from the start otherwise you will end up with algae.

I use a soil layer covered with sand atm. I'm not saying you have to use a soil layer but this gives me a large supply of ferts and the organic matter that is broken down in the soil provides additional CO2. If you are not going to have a soil under layer or use one of the commercial substrates that contain the full range of ferts then you will need to add ferts.

If you want to keep the tank low tech then don't add the CO2. This means though that you will have to manage the plants demand for CO2 by keeping the light levels down (both watts and duration) and plant biomass down ie pruning.

Low tech you can get away with far fewer water changes - just a bit every now and then while you maintain your filter - good flow helps ime even in low tech tanks.

 

[alan_uk]

thank you

if i were to use some sort of root tabs in the sand and add the co2 and the t5 lighting would this make a difference as i really dont want to remove all the sand again as the tank is currently up and running with fish

im stuck now and dont know what to do :?:

 

[alan_uk]

ive decided that if i need to change the substrate then i will

i was thinking about now would

akadama substrate with a layer of peat under and sprinkled with root tabs

and the 2 4ft t5ho 6500k bulbs work with no co2 or ferts ?

after reading the thread on akadama it sounds to be a good choice

thank you

 

[toadass]

Alan.... Under low light conditions (generally less than 2 Watts per Gallon) there is normally enough CO2 for the plant to grow successfully without CO2 addition. If the light levels are increased to over 2 WPG then the plants will grow well for a period until they consume the little CO2 (normal levels are around 6ppm) that is available in the tank. The plants growth is then limited by a lack of CO2. The plants will stop growing, resulting in an algae bloom because of the light and suspended nutrients. Algae’s biggest friend is a tank where there is lots of light and little plant growth. It therefore becomes necessary to increase CO2 levels within the aquarium. CO2 addition (injection) is therefore recommended with light levels of 2 WPG or over. The high lighting ‘drives’ the plants to uptake more CO2 and nutrients (see Lighting article). This is a paragraph from one of cegs articles on co2. Have a look on the tutorials mate pretty sure you'll be able to find a loada useful info there. Eg lighting, co2 ect.

 

[alan_uk]

that kinda makes sense to me

on the therefore a decent substrate with if i get the 2 54w t5 thats still only 1watt per gallon as the tank is 101 gallons

so the low light plant selection im going for should work out ok correct?

even without ferts or co2 which i dont really want to add anyway i dont even mind if the plants are really slow growing to be honest

 

[Mirf]

Apologies for hi-jacking your thread but I was about to post asking a similar question regarding sand.

Does it need to be a specific sand that's used, or can I use normal playsand (I have bags of the stuff) Also what soil would you recommend to go underneath the sand, normal peat?

Sorry once again

 

[alan_uk]

no worries mate im changing to aqkadama soil now with osmocote plant fert and moss peat as it will be better in the long run and still less than £60 all in for a 6ft x 18" footprint giving me 2.5" at the front and 3.5" rear

also i wouldnt put sand over peat as it will get mixed and look horrible ive tried and failed in the past

and ive always found plants to melt in sand for some reason even with co2 an ferts

 

[Mirf]

Okay thanks for the reply.

I'll scrub the sand then. I'm completely new to all of this so have no idea what the hell I'm doing!!

Just trying to set up a low tech tank to hold a couple of puffers without killing all the plants within a week.

 

[ceg4048]

...and ive always found plants to melt in sand for some reason even with co2 an ferts...

Here's the reason;
Combination of too much light + poor CO2/flow = melting.

This has nothing to do with sand, play or otherwise.

Cheers,

 

[alan_uk]

oh i always thought it was the sand being too dense due to the fact the tank was only 2foot and had the filter and a korilia 3 in there and 1bps co2 and the tank was full of tiny little bubbles yet any stem plant i tried melted lol

then when i changed to cat litter as substrate

they all started going mad and growing really well ?

 

[ceg4048]

Well, it's hardly likely that the substrate was the only difference between the two setups. Flow would have been different and perhaps some of the equipment might have been different? Were you more educated about planted tanks at the time of cat litter usage than you were at the time of sand usage? It could easily be that poor flow/distribution caused your CO2 bubbles to be at the top of the tank while the plants languished at the bottom of the tank starving of CO2.

Here is a James Flexton sand tank. There are plenty of other examples.
Many people use sand without issues. Therefore sand by itself cannot be held responsible for melting plants.
Many people suffer melting in tanks using cat litter and other clay type substrates.
Therefore, melting must be considered to be independent of sand.
As it turns out, the evidence indicates that melting is ALWAYS associated with CO2/excessive light/flow-distribution failure.
You must conclude that some combination of the things you did or re-did to the tank resulted
in an increased uptake of CO2.

Cheers,

 

[alan_uk]

that looks cool

thing is though in the new tank i didnt want to use co2 at all as its 6foot and would cost a bomb to set it up lol

i take what yousay as what was probs wrong as i dont know enough to say it was just the sand

could i add the osmocote and peat under the sand and still get good results using the t5 lighting ?

 

[ceg4048]

There is a very tight relationship between the amount of light falling on the leaves and that leaf's requirement for CO2 (and nutrients). You can successfully run the 6 ft tank non-CO2, or even with small amounts of CO2 and/or Excel as long as you keep the lighting low. The problem is that most people like bright lights, so they use any excuse they can to have higher lighting and then the problems occur. They the blame everything else in the tank for the failures except the root cause, which is too much light and not enough CO2 for that amount of light.

You can put whatever you want under the sand or substrate. The Osmocote under sand will work the same as if it were under any other substrate and so will the peat. Again, I caution you to use these products in moderation and with great care, otherwise you create more problems than you solve.

T5 lighting is much brighter than T8 lighting for the same wattage rating. Therefore, if your tank will not use CO2, then it would cause less potential headaches if you were to stick with the T8. If you are using CO2 then you will generally require higher levels of CO2 injection than you would require using T8.

Cheers,

 

[alan_uk]

cheers mate im beginning to understand

see at the minute im running a

36 watt marine white t8
40 watt plant grow t8

no co2
no ferts

sand only substrate

i want

2 osram 865 daylight white 6500k t5 54 watt lights 45" long so it will be almost 1 long bulb

sparing covering of osmocote as said by you
sphagnum moss peat very thin layer so glass is still visible

then either the sand or the baked clay cat litter i dont mind the sand looks better but the cat litter would benefit i think im not sure also its light so planting may be a problem im not 100% i know it wont ather as much muck on the surface as sand

the wattage will be 1.06 watts per gallon

i just want to know if this will be ok without co2 or low co2 with the above but no ferts other than osmocote and peat ??

 

[ceg4048]

Yes, this all sounds reasonable. That amount of lighting is not unreasonable for non-CO2. You can use either the cat litter or the sand. That's just a personal choice. In low performance tanks the substrate choice is simply not as relevant. Use whichever substrate you want and place the Osmocote underneath.

Cheers,

 

[alan_uk]

cool cheers mate

will good flow still be needed in the tank as i was going to purchase 1 of the double 6000l/h korilia for the end of the tank were the spray bar is ?

also will i be ok growing

rotala roundafolia
ludwigia repens
needle java fern
normal java fern
weeping moss
crypt wendtii brown
amazon sword
wisteria
anubias nana
pogostomon helferi

possibly lilleapolis brasiliensis

cheers again for all your help mate

 

[ceg4048]

Yeah, no worries mate. 8)

If the tank is non-CO2 then flow is much less critical. If you inject gas or use excel then it's more important. Again, it depends on the lighting. The higher the light, the better your flow needs to be.

The plant list looks OK to me, all fairly reasonable plants tolerant of low CO2.

Cheers,

 

[alan_uk]

great stuff mate ill get it all going and planted up and see how i get on if do get and plants that seem to be struggling ill think about adding co2

if i do decide to add the co2

will i be better adding the 6000l/h korilia to one end under the spray bar or would i get better adding 1 single korilia at one end and then another at the other end 1 at front and 1 rear to create a circular flow

i do also have a fluval 4+ at the opposite end from the spray bar

 

[ceg4048]

Well this is a personal choice whether to achieve your flow rating via powerhead. From an aesthetic perspective, I personally don't like to look at powerheads/pumps mounted in plain view and so I always opt to use higher capacity filtration into the spraybar. There are many ways to skin the cat though so it's up to you how you do it. Again, it all starts with the light. If the lighting is kept in control then everything is much easier, you can "get away" with breaking the rules a lot more and there is a greater margin for error.

It's difficult to predict how things will turn out, especially in a large tank but the plants will tell you right away.

Cheers,