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Problem with my 240

angelah

Member
Joined
3 Jan 2011
Messages
63
Location
west London
A problem has developed that I don't understand.
As you all know the cycle started well enough with a good ammonia reading and when that dropped nitrites picked up - all well and good so far.
But when the nitrites dropped after 4 days the ammonia count went up again, 0.50 the first day and 1.0 the next. The third it was 1.5 ppm yet nitrites were still at 0.0.
The very next day I thought it was resolving because ammonia dropped again to 0.25, but then found titrites were also 0.25. And that's how it's stayed all along. Get one to zero the other goes up, get that down to 0 then the other one goes back up.
Then, and because this had been going on for a while, I tested ntrates. That read off the scale, I had no idea what it was, far higher than it should be.
So as the cycle had stalled I did a 40% water change, but that didn't make any visible difference to the nitrate reading. Next day I did a 50% change and still no difference, although I must admit there may have been a verys slight one on the API chart.
As I am very unwell with a nasty bug I haven't the energy to do any more changes, although somebody did recomment an 80% change. I have not done that.
Taoday the readings are; Ammonia 1.00, nitrite 0.0 (yesterday that was 2.0).
So still all over the place. I cannot make out where all that nitrate came from so maybe somebody here can give me some clues...
I used the JBL AquaBasicPlus as a base covered with about 30 mm of sand from MA, I think it might even have been JBL sand, it wasn't cheap.
Have been running a fishless cycle to (initially) 4 ppm, now dropped to 3 ppm
Other readings are; iron 0.0, GH (Nutrafin liquid) 80, KH 20, Po4 1.0.

Any ideas folks?

A very bemused Angela

PS: This evening's readings are ammonia 1.5, nitrite 0.00 and nitrate 160. Where is all the nitrate coming from!

Roma_day_17.jpg
 
Isn't the nitrate coming from the ammonia you are adding to start the cycle? (ammonia to nitrite to nitrate).

If you aren't doing water changes all the ammonia will end up as nitrate (except what's consumed by plants).

I don't think you need to worry too much - just leave the tank to get on for itself for a few days without adding ammonia or testing, and see how it does.

You will get a lot of replies on this forum saying that test kits never give correct results. I don't know if that is true or not, as I don't really use them. But if you've got a filter running, substrate in the tank, and plants in the tank (which you have!) then it will all come right very quickly.

I don't have a magic bullet to fix this, but I would suggest just sitting back for a day or two and letting the tank, filter, and plants get on with it.

Hope to hear from you later in the week to see how it's going!

Good luck,

Mark
 
I'd say as well that nitrates are the end product of all that ammonium you are putting in there so it just builds up.
Dont want to upset you after all that hard job you have done but planted tanks do not need the cycling as you do it ;)
Plants will help you to cycle the tank and if you introduce fish slowly you wont have a problem. Algae eaters first and fish later.
I have done that fishless cycle with ammonia once. That was before i came to planted tanks and never used it since.
I would now probably stopped putting the ammonia and just do a 80% water change and start the tank plus add fish to feed that bacteria you have built in the filters.
4ppm of ammonium is a lot and i would guess that partially your tank is cycled and there is enough bacteria to support quite few fish. Start light on the fish and put as much plants as you can and everything should be fine.
That what i would do in the same situation. I might be wrong though ;)
 
Okay peeps,
Thanks for your ideas and opinions, always interesting to read how other people deal with such problems.

Firstly there is no visible algae and I was hoping to avoid putting AEs in at all, but certainly until it showed. This is destined to be a biotope South American tank so I would need a similar AE fish, I don't know of one.
I went on the Chat room last night and had a long discussion about this so will bear with the decisions made there for a while and see what develops first. I still firmly believe a fishless is best, but everybody works in different ways and the one that works for you is the one to follow, better the Devil you know etc.

Added a picture to my first post so you can get a better idea of what the tank looks like because all these questions and associated problems might have led folk to believe the tank was in trouble. It is to a degree, but invisibly.

Cheers,

Angela
 
Yep, tank looks good. Seen it in the journal section.
Hope the cycle finishes soon for you then :thumbup:
Your cabomba is definitely loving all that ammonium :D
 
I believe a fishless cycle using ammonia gives you a better head start than just letting the plants do because you get a bigger (more than you realy need) bio collony in the filter. Which was handy for me adding 6 fairly large discus at once. If your doing a amazon biotope im sure alot of the plant safe plecs would be ok
 
RudeDogg1 said:
I believe a fishless cycle using ammonia gives you a better head start than just letting the plants do because you get a bigger (more than you realy need) bio collony in the filter. Which was handy for me adding 6 fairly large discus at once. If your doing a amazon biotope im sure alot of the plant safe plecs would be ok

Hi RudeDogg1,
After our evening Chat I did what you said and upped the ammonia. Still nowt... Then, and for some unknown reason, I tested the pH, it was down to 6.0 and had probably stalled the cycle.
So again taking your advice I added bicarb until it was back up to 7.0. The next check in the evening gave ammonia and nitrite up to 3 and 2 respecively, so it had started cycling again.
This morning pH was again down to 6.6, so did the bicarb trick again and dosed the ammonia up from Zero to 4 ppm. Nitrite sat as 2.0 ppm.
I shall now keep a closer eye on the pH.
The only other point is KH is at 30 ppm. Do you think that needs buffering up a bit?

Thanks,

Angela
 
How odd. I spent ages starting a new thread in the water chemistry section but it isn't there!

I'll try again, need some advice.

Angela
 
I wouldnt worry about your kh untill its cycled and thats only if you are going to keep stuff that needs a higher kh but it will help to stop a ph crash. I buffer mine because mine is very low to and as i keep discus i dont want any stability issues mines about 3 dkh 54ppm. I use seachem reef builder in my water butt raises it to about 4 -5. Once your nitrite and ph go to zero then check your nitrate (nitrite can screw up nitrate tests). Keep using the bicarb for now then once its cycled u can sort out a buffer.
 
Why perform a fishless cycle on a planted tank? It's quite pointless.
Fishless cycles are done in the dark with no plants.
Concentrate on growing the plants, CO2, ferts, circulation and stop adding the ammonia. Lots of healthy plant biomass will work with the filter to reduce ammonia and nitrite readings to safe levels. As time goes on, the filters will build up a good colony of nitrifying bacteria.

Check out Dave's guide http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?/to ... ted-tanks/
 
Hi there,
The other thing that might be worth a go is pinching some matured media from somone with an established tank and filter - takes all of the uncertainty out of knowing whether you have a bacteria colony or not. I have only ever cycled one tank - then i have just kept splitting, mixing and moving portions of the media whenever i have started a new tank. You evidently like fishless cycling and i can see the advantage, but you are "artificially" creating a colony, rather than planting and then adding fish very gradually to let a colony build up in a more natural way, including the build up of the beneficial "brown sludge" in your filter!
Hope this helps - i'd also recommend dropping the test kit for a couple of days at least - the numbers seem to be stressing you! :)
Matt
 
bigmatt said:
Hi there,
i'd also recommend dropping the test kit for a couple of days at least - the numbers seem to be stressing you! :)
Matt

What he said! (and what I said a few days ago!!)

Relax, your tank will work itself out :D .

Mark
 
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