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PH Controller conundrum

bjorn

Member
Joined
1 Dec 2010
Messages
223
I've recently started to use an AquaMedia PH Controller / Computer. It works great and seems to do the job, except I cannot figure out a way of switching off at night. I've tried to use a Timer Switch that turns off the entire PH Controller which worked for a couple of days, but the last time it switched on/off, it lost all it's settings and reset itself to PH:0.00 which of course isn't great.

Have anyone figured out a solution for only using this type of Controller when the lights are on?

I rather not use it during the night as it will only mean I end up wasting CO2.. i think..
 
Hi
Can you give some information on your aquarium.
Plant mass/Fish Load/Surface agitation....Set PH value.
The sensor should message the controller to tell it to switch off/close.....the solenoid if it falls below a set PH say 7.
This should happen automatically at night because plants (if you have a big enough plant mass) expel Co2 at lights off and this should drop the PH below the set PH.
Also this should happen when you have pumped enough Co2 into the aquarium during the day to achieve a green drop checker...set the PH slightly below this value....for the sake of stability.

Bearing in mind that you dont have a lot of surface movement or a air stone running at night....this will make your PH rise and switch/open your solenoid and Co2 back on.
I have a Dennerle Controller which I haven't used for a while so my memory maybe a bit faded.
Regards
hoggie
 
Corki said:
The only reason I ask is because PH controllers can cause CO2 fluctuation which lead to algae.

Ive only experienced minor algae problems using a PH controller....I think this was down to a lack of flow not Co2 fluctuations.
Just my 2 pence worth.
hoggie
 
[quote="Corki" As a side note, have you thought about just having the solenoid on a timer and by passing the controller. :rolleyes:
May as well get shot of the PH Controller if your going to do that. :silent:
hoggie
 
Thanks for the replies.

I have a 170L tank with a Aqua Medic 1000 Co2 reactor which sit on a 2nd filter (750l/hour, but main filter is 1050l/hour). Both filters use Lily pipes. Lights are 2 x 39w T5 Arcadia Luminare.

From what I can see my CO2 sweet spot is at around 3bbs or a PH around 6.25. That's when fish are fine, drop checker is lime green and lots of pearling from plants. My KH is between 8 and 9. But I use ADA Amazonia substrate which means it lowers both KH and PH and I can't use the normal way of calculating CO2..

I contacted AquaMedic who have said it's not recommended to use a timer to switch the controller on and off every day. And I can see why as it seems to reset itself is you switch it off too many times. It's not possible to put a timer on the solenoid as that power plug is controlled by the PH controller.. so any timer sitting on that would also be switched off at a certain PH. (I did test)

To complicate things further my digital PH reader I've been using before I got the PH Controller (a simple pen thing that reads PH value and Temperature) does not show the same PH value as the PH Controller does. There is a 0.08 discrepancy. I have re-calibrated both but they just don't to measure the same. Of course the Pen PH Checker I use towards the surface and the PH Controller sensor sit towards the middle/bottom of the tank.

My sweet spot of 6.25 was measured with my old PH reader, so with the 0.08-0.10 discrepancy I should have my PH controller set to around 6.15 and that should give me the sweet spot. But the PH controller seems to have a hard time pushing the PH down below 6.18 even now when the lights are off. It can quite happily get it down to 6.20 and keep it there with no problem but not much further.

Why would there be a PH point/value at which it's much more difficult to go further down even when the lights are off and no CO2 should be getting used up? (I've got very little surface agitation).
 
But having CO2 on constantly during light hours also mean that PH fluctuates, doesn't it?

I've recorded my PH readings every day at different times. PH steadily drop from morning until evening, it never reaches a certain point at which it stops going down. Instead it will continue to drop lower until lights and CO2 go off. Why would that PH fluctuation be any better than one induced by a PH Controller? Both means that PH or CO2 is not constantly the same. Or?
 
bjorn said:
But having CO2 on constantly during light hours also mean that PH fluctuates, doesn't it?

I've recorded my PH readings every day at different times. PH steadily drop from morning until evening, it never reaches a certain point at which it stops going down. Instead it will continue to drop lower until lights and CO2 go off. Why would that PH fluctuation be any better than one induced by a PH Controller? Both means that PH or CO2 is not constantly the same. Or?

Indeed CO2 will always fluctuate but when we are aiming at an average* 30ppm we are making CO2 unlimited. Like adding excess ferts so it doesn't matter if it fluctuates as long as the average is over X.

The Ph controller will not know what how much the CO2 is affecting the Ph drop and so cannot determine whether the average is maintained and therefore can cause problems.

*By average I mean there is no possibility ever of having the same ppm of CO2 all over the tank. It may be higher than 100ppm at source whether it be the filter inlet or an intank diffuser and it may be in the single digits at the substrate however that is why we inject to a 30ppm average. So that these hard to get CO2 areas are boosted.

If it were possible to maintain 10ppm throughout the whole bidy of water we could quite likely stay there but then we know how CO2 works and how it it escapes etc.

This is why some people can get away with yellow DCs whilst others can have fish struggling with a dark green DC. Where it is positioned is only telling you what the concentration is (could be) in that particular area. 10 DCs in a tank in different areas and different levels would show you some interesting differences ;)

AC
 
So in short, it's better to have a steadily increasing CO2 from morning to night, than a aiming for a certain PH or CO2 value?

My main reason for getting the controller was so that I can get to the perfect level of CO2 when the lights go on and then stay there. The problem with doing that without a controller is that if I get to that point early in the day, by the end the day CO2 will be very high and possibly beyond what's good for my fish as it would just continue to increase.

When I used a timer only, I put the CO2 on 2.5 hours before the lights, it still wouldn't reach that point by the time the lights went on. At that point I was doing 3 bubbels per second.. And that's as fast as I can possible count in the Bubble counter.

How do you guys make sure to hit that sweet spot early on in the day?
 
If you really want to stop the CO2 supply at night, without turning off (and resetting) the controller, you just need to buy another solenoid and timer , and put that somewhere in the system. I can't see any advantage in turning it off at night if you're using a controller though.

Good luck,

Mark
 
Something amiss there. The CO2 'shouldn't steadily increase through the day unless you are putting too much into the system in the first place. CO2 is always fighting to escape by its very nature.

If you are struggling to reach a level at lights on yet it is rising during the day then something must be going wrong. I used to put 2-3bps in and only turn on an hour before lights and not have problems during the photoperiod. I always like a decent ripple to the water at the top too.

How do we make sure we hit that 'sweet spot'? trial and error with most things. Its a case of tweak and watch until it works.

However there is a small percentage if not minute amount of people within this forum actualy using Ph controllers. And of that minute number not many are using it linked to their CO2.

AC
 
SuperColey1 said:
Something amiss there. The CO2 'shouldn't steadily increase through the day unless you are putting too much into the system in the first place. CO2 is always fighting to escape by its very nature.

If you are struggling to reach a level at lights on yet it is rising during the day then something must be going wrong. I used to put 2-3bps in and only turn on an hour before lights and not have problems during the photoperiod. I always like a decent ripple to the water at the top too.

How do we make sure we hit that 'sweet spot'? trial and error with most things. Its a case of tweak and watch until it works.

However there is a small percentage if not minute amount of people within this forum actualy using Ph controllers. And of that minute number not many are using it linked to their CO2.

AC

Right.. so something isn't quite right..

This is for example what I recorded during a normal day using Timer + 3 Bubbles per Sec (off at night and no controller):

08:45 - PH 6.61 (CO2 switched on)
11:00 - PH 6.43 (lights switched on)
16:00 - PH 6.30 (lots of pearling)
19:00 - PH 6.26 (lights and CO2 off)
22:30 - PH 6.40 (everything off)

6.20 to 6.30 seems to be a good spot for me, fish are fine and plants are doing well + no algea etc. But I don't get to that point until 15-16:00.

What I have noticed when counting bubbles is that they sometimes seems to slow down, then quicken up again.. As if the AquaMedic 1000 reactor somehow can't accept more CO2 or pressure too high.. it just seems to slow down. It's very difficult to measure though as at 3bbs it's hard enough to count anyway. The reactor isn't full with gas either, mainly water with a tiny bit of gas at the top.
 
Thanks for those links, had not seen one of them before.

I think I might have figured out what I'm doing wrong both with Timer and Controller method. I've not found a balance, a point at which the PH and CO2 remains the same.. Instead of having it inject just enough it's done slightly too much so that the CO2 level keep increasing slightly over the entire day. Which means the PH keeps getting lower.

So please correct me if I'm wrong, but I should try and settle at a bubble rate that achive a steady PH value + Limegreen drop checker? Doing this with my PH Controller I'm trying to find a bubble count that will inject just enough CO2 to keep my PH at 6.13. I'll then set the PH Controller to switch the CO2 off if it reaches PH6.10.. which should happen at night, Right?
 
hogan53 said:
Hi
What colour is your drop checker in the morning?
hoggie

Always Green, then progress to lime green in the afternoon. I've never seen it blue in the morning. It does turn blue though, normally when i do water changes or clean the drop checker.
 
Hi Bjorn
You have plenty of Co2 in that case if its Green in the morning.
You got to remember that the drop checker takes time to register....say 2 to 3 hours.
You dont want to go gassing your fish trying to establish a lime green colour before the lights have been switched on.
Your doing everything correct by getting a lime green colour in the middle of the photoperiod and the inhabitants are not suffering.
Stick with the Co2 controller and i dont think you will have many issues to fight.........as long as you keep the sensor calibrated regularly.
Regards
hoggie
 
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