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The science behind ADA additives

Come on Mark you know it is true. I have nothing against it. People will always be more likely to open a thread by yourself or George or any other top scaper. Its is natural to want to see what the best are doing etc and to see the quality of photography. Thats fine. Nothing wrong with that. The name draws more watchers.That is a natural occurrence and reputations are made and earned :)

However it does peeve me to open a journal page and see loads of titles that just look the same like ADA 60P, Rimless Starfire 36 etc. Its like the tank brand becomes more important than th scape in a way. Takes a little away for me.

Saying that if I spent a fortune on an ADA tank it would probably mean I watch to show off. That is what I am like with other things :)

AC
 
SuperColey1 said:
I don't think it is as bad as Garuf is saying however I do notice that if someone does a scape in an ADA tank the title of the journal will include ADA 60P or whatever that tank is. I don't see many journals that have 'Fluval 125' or 'Juwel 125' in their title. There are some of course but with ADA ones it is ALWAYS part of the title.

Well that's interesting. Some may use it to show off you're right. Maybe they are proud to their newbie or so. Maybe they waited so long to get a good gear. No prob with that. We're the ones who click more to those topics and giving compliments on gears and forgot about the scape the most. :D

On the other hand this is a nice achievment from a brand that people use it even in their topics. Many other brand would love to have a community like this around it's product range.

For me a great feedback if you check all the major contests out there and the equiments, tanks, lights etc means nothing there. Only that living world which the person created. That's why it does not matter what people use in their topic name. Use something which catch the attention if the scape is good and you will get more feedback for sure, but even without that you can be on the top of the contests everywhere.
 
George Farmer said:
SuperColey1 said:
Much like a Ferrari owner leaving his car in the driveway rather than Garage so everybody can see it.
Maybe they have to do that because their garage is packed full of ADA gear. :D

Lol. The tank would indeed be safer in the garage than on the driveway :)

Viktor. Indeed they are proud of their gear. What they wanted for ages and that is a compliment to the brand. However it is the brand name that is the prestige not the actual components in reality. Yes the gear is good, Yes many of the ingredients are good also, however some are just buy it because its ADA.

Makes me chuckle at the many who have their ADA products lined up next to the tank. They are part of the 'display'. Can't have them hidden in the cupboard. Those bottles need to be seen :)

At the end of the day if these work then great. If the scaper is happy to buy a product whether it works or not thats also fine. I think a lot of it is more for the 'statement' it gives than the actual usefulness.

I think its for each person to choose what they want to do and what they want to use and have no problem with anyone who wants to use any product but it is annoying how you can't say anything against some brands or processes without a barrage of defensive attacks from fan boys.

This isn't ADA specific though. There are fanboys of all methods, brands etc including EI and some get far too aggressive in 'defence' of their beliefs.

Let all choose their way and give advice but no need for the aggression. Those who want to listen or learn have no need for that and those who don't want to listen and learn or disagree will not accept a different opinion no matter how forecefully it is put to them.

At the end of the day all hobbies need a prestigious end and a DIY end. Thats what makes things interesting. to see if the DIY/cheapo option can achieve what the prestigious option does. In this case I think it does.

And with the hardware end We would all like the B&W speakers and Denon systems. None of us would have a Bush setup if we had the choice :) Therefore if ADA is the dream then go for it.

AC
 
[quote="plantbrain. Maybe your self respect can bought at a lower price?
Everyone has their price eh?

Regards,
Tom Barr[/quote]
I'm afraid my self respect was gone out the window after my first girlfriend :crazy: Interesting that even if something that can't be proved to be of benefit is still seen as vital or at least advantageous, but I suppose on the other side of the coin just because we can't understand the reasons doesn't mean it doesn't work.Nothing more unreasonable as a person that won't reason. In my case though it's a mute point as
1) I can't afford ADA and
2) In my mind seems like a lot of money for goods that take pride in their limits and imperfections( lights that are weaker than norm regarding wattage or tanks that you can see distortion in the glass. Maybe we are guilty of the mind set of the emperor as in his new clothes or inverted snobbery.
 
I'll test it! I think i can grow algae pretty effeectively in ANY setup! :D :D :D
Really interesting thread- particularly as i love the ADA aesthetic (but can't afford it) but have never bought into the ADA "chemistry set". I'd love to give it a go one day, but only when my planting has got to such a stage that i feel i can make some comparison with cheaper end products.
M
 
mrjackdempsey said:
I'm afraid my self respect was gone out the window after my first girlfriend :crazy:

For every pretty gal you see, there's a guy out there that wished he'd NEVER met her.
Same is true for women's side of that coin.

Interesting that even if something that can't be proved to be of benefit is still seen as vital or at least advantageous, but I suppose on the other side of the coin just because we can't understand the reasons doesn't mean it doesn't work.Nothing more unreasonable as a person that won't reason.

Or wants to bemoan the fact we do not understand it, therefore there's still some remote.........as it really is.......a slight chance they might be correct.

This approach sells Billions in the Fake diet industry.

Oh......but no one would every stoop to this level in the Aquarium hobby eh???

In my case though it's a mute point as
1) I can't afford ADA and
2) In my mind seems like a lot of money for goods that take pride in their limits and imperfections( lights that are weaker than norm regarding wattage or tanks that you can see distortion in the glass. Maybe we are guilty of the mind set of the emperor as in his new clothes or inverted snobbery.

Much more like a social collective neurosis :thumbup:
 
SuperColey1 said:
This isn't ADA specific though. There are fanboys of all methods, brands etc including EI and some get far too aggressive in 'defence' of their beliefs.
AC

Sure, but.........
EI is not a "brand"
EI is not selling a single thing.
EI does not suggest homeopathic rubbish.
These are not comparable in the context of this topic.
Nor is EI a belief nor expects anyone to accept belief as part of the method, nor uses cheese ball marketing ploys.

I understand some get a bit religious with EI...........and go over the top there........but I do not support that, it discredits and rational side of things. Diet pills are better comparison, or Dupla, Derrenle's line etc.

Penac is not part of ADA's method really......... nor is touramline...these where co opted from the homeopathic trades and added to the ADA's brand.

There's no Science behind this rubbish. There is for dosing ferts and such. Distilled and not confused by tangential rubbish.....it really is quite a simple debate.

Belief vs facts.
 
Penac = *Composition: Calcium Carbonate (98.1% + 0.9% MgCO3 = 99%)

"In the Plocher System this fine energy is concentrated by an apparatus and used to copy or imprint the attributes of one or more substances onto other substances. It works much like a photo copier or a laser printer where the energy of the laser beam is replaced by the focused energy of the Plocher apparatus.

The energy itself is assumed to have a minute wavelength and can therefore not be measured by instruments currently available to science."

sound like placebo and chicanery to anyone else?

you can even buy a penac kat to attach to your water pipes so that all the water in your home is revitalised by energetic oscillation.. come to think of it you could attach these directly to your tanks, i wonder how long before these are ADA branded?

http://www.organicsa.co.za/Products/Penac/PENAC-KAT/penac-kat.html
 
OMG. Utter new age gibberish. You'd have just as much luck sacrificing a goat and praying for good plant growth.
 
Every time someone buys into new age pseudo-science a real scientist dies.

Some great finds, really adds weight to the "I sell it because I'm told to" quote, utter garbage all round.
 
plantbrain said:
There's no Science behind this rubbish. There is for dosing ferts and such. Distilled and not confused by tangential rubbish.....it really is quite a simple debate.

Belief vs facts.
Brilliant! Cuts straight to the matter of things, there's no real fact in most of these arguments, it's always geared by peoples beliefs which explains why people take it as attacks and are so vitriolic in their response and how it instantly becomes personal.
 
good find Tom!

I like the pond in Greece that they treated with Penac, it clearly isn't the same pond.

At the end of the day, people will always believe in this type of rubbish, it's human nature. As most comments in this thread state, 'it's a shame that people do believe', it's such a waste of hard earned money!

right, anyone want to buy some magic beans?
 
Wow, I started this thread out as to ascertain whether my scepticism of these products was unfounded, I think I can safely conclude I was right to be sceptical.....and then some.
 
Morgan Freeman said:
Wow, I started this thread out as to ascertain whether my scepticism of these products was unfounded, I think I can safely conclude I was right to be sceptical.....and then some.

Do not ever loose that thinking. The corporate overlords in the USA have tried and done a very good job beating it out of people here.

This crap has entered agriculture also here in CA, often called Biodynamic farming, organic farming and sustainable methods I STRONGLY advocate like a holy man preaching redemption.........(But I have some facts, not a holy book), but they take this and add some spiritual Gia type baloney and ruin all the good factual business aspects and toss in the quackery.

Has really been popular with the Napa and Sonoma Wine nut jobs.

I;'m in Ag central here as the USDA UC Davis CA, USA region for this stuff, and the entire GMO debate. Researchers are leary of all this stuff and how it's marketed and controlled as intellectual property(Monsanto, Cargill etc)

The stakes are MUCH higher here, than in our dinky little hobby..........but the same type of stuff, at different scales. I do not think Amano is the CEO even in the same league as any of those crooked people and thankfully so........He's fairly reasonable in person and humor etc. The video of him saying it's what the marketing guys said......seems about right.

Penac is just one thing though, Tourmaline, Power sand etc, these should tested and considered as well, as well as ADA aqua soil etc, the tanks, the lights etc......

Some of this is GREAT! Some, not so great.......but what did you expect? Snake oil or a silver bullet?
The reality is a little of both.
 
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