• You are viewing the forum as a Guest, please login (you can use your Facebook, Twitter, Google or Microsoft account to login) or register using this link: Log in or Sign Up

London Riots

Jim said:
It''s getting hard for me to understand this now.

Why aren't the cops cracking heads? Why haven't they taken control of the streets back? Do they have to operate with one hand tied behind their backs over there because of political correctness or something??

Surely if they were given the green light they could get these scumbugs under control mighty fast.

Yes they do over here these days, if too much force is used then questions are asked and allegations start and people try then to put in a claim that they've been mis handled. This country has become to obsessed with human rights and what's not allowed. That's the reason why our force has lost the respect in the eyes of all these teeny boppers running round the streets.
When I was a kid we got the punishment we deserved off the police. If that happened these days they'd be struck off. It's a joke. Give them back what ever force they want I say. That would soon change things.
 
Alastair said:
And personally I think all our police officers should be given the right to a firearm.


It's amazing that your general duties officers aren't armed.

Between '84 and '95 we had 69 fatal police shootings across Australia and considering that we only have a population of 20 million thats pretty high.

In the last couple of years all our police forces across Australia have seen the introduction of Tazers (as well as the introduction of Glock autos to replace S&W Model 10 .38 specials) and this has led to a small reduction in the number shootings.
 
plantbrain said:
Now if a crowd of angry normal folks got the pitch forks and torches......then went after them, then there'd be mayhem.
.

That has happened in Upton Park, Canning Town and Southall, those are the spots I know. We, the community, did patrols and stand in front of critical areas.

In Southall it was the local Sikh temple, and in Upton Park it was the local church, as people tried to loot it and set it on fire.

Sad times we are seeing to.
 
Trying to control a demonstration at the G20 summit, the police push a man to the ground who later dies. Police get flack from all sides: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7989027.stm

Two weeks after a simultaneous attacks on London's transport network a man wearing a heavy jacket in the height of summer who is mistaken for a terrorist ignores police instruction and is shot. Police take flack from all sides: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8286789.stm

A man with a live, not replica, gun is shot by police. Even though he didn't fire at them, the police " discharged their weapons in the belief there was a threat to human life." Police take flack from all sides: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14459516

And now everyone is up in arms that the police aren't cracking the heads of these violent thugs. You can't have it both ways...
 
That is true, it is hard for the police in the UK. On most countries, for bad or worse, they are free to use their discretion. Also, the large majority of the population has learnt to respect the police. In Portugal, as most people have been to the army, there is a big support for the police, as most have old colleagues, friends or family on the police force.

The Police here are not respected, by old and new, and frankly I do not know why they bother to even join the force, badly paid, bad conditions and always in trouble.
 
Talk about being stuck between a rock and a hard place.

The police should be allowed to use more force without social media repercussions. It's crazy. On saying this though I did see some clips from Manchester where they actually started using their batons around the back of the knees. :D

The one thing I think holds quite true is, you don't know how many of the looters, rioters, er moron's are actually carrying firearms. If the police started firing rubber bullets around the place it takes 1 moron to start firing back then you could have a right situation.

The other thing that gets up my nose is some of those that are charged, get sent to overcrowded prisons which are funded by, yes, you and me the taxpayer. We'll pick up the bill for the fines that some will get off with because they will pay from their giro's or not at all.

This country needs to get it's prison system in check. Forget nice warm cushy cells, TV's, pool tables and comfy beds. A large compound with a large electrified perimiter fence, armed guards and give them a tent and a bucket! That would be a lot less strain on the taxpayer.
 
Yes, the prisons may be too cushy.

As a young chap I always kept away from trouble for three reasons:
- afraid of my dad finding out
- afraid of the police and my dad finding out (he was a sargent at the police)
- afraid of going to jail

Now on these times the kids do not care, going to prison is cool, their dad's cannot give them a belting, and the police has bigger issues to worry about.
 
I think a lot of this is recognisable as the downfall of consumerism greed, a lot of these people aren't rioting for a higher purpose, they're simply young, angry and craving commodities they cannot normally get, they see it as an easy opportunity to take what they want. What may have started off as community unrest has soon been overtaken by youths who have seen an opportunity which perceivably carries no or little risk compared to their desire for designer commodities. The other thing I recognise in this crowd is people are too quick to call it mindless, going out purposefully to steal isn't mindlessness, the other thing is a clear cultural issue, there seems to be a culture in which glorification of violence has proliferated unabated and those who criticise it chastised as being Mary Whitehouse sorts, the gangs underbelly has taken this on and we're left where people running about with Guns and Knifes is something that culturally we're not shocked by and the cultures in which it happens have taken on an anti-establishment mentality where anyone who wants to stop their selfish nihilistic behaviour is the enemy and they believe that those who wish to uphold the law and stop them from acting this way are open to their perception of acceptable behaviour, a community in up-roar because a gang member, carrying a gun, with intent to kill and harm, to act outside the law is shot dead after an attempted murder is not a culture that deserves to exist, continue or proliferate.
 
Sentral said:
It's just disgusting, waiting to see what happens tonight. Even we closed early (in Bristol, and in a mall!)

SteveUK said:
There's a lot of information here which is constantly being updated as things unfold, as well as a lot of discussion. Might be useful for any Londoners here:

https://www.lfgss.com/thread13146-148.html

A lot of clued up people.

Cheers for that. Do you ride?

Yep, yourself? My ride :)
 
Kosh42-EFG said:
And now everyone is up in arms that the police aren't cracking the heads of these violent thugs. You can't have it both ways...
Totally agreed, police cracking open heads would just incentive more riots and have these thugs justifying them. What they should have done is lock them up for a day or two and then get them to clean up the mess they made in the first place, and a few more hours of community service then they would have something to do.
 
It is in the main very political. The last generation (25 years or so) have become so free from reality because 'children' have so many rights these days. they are basically untouchable.

Its not so much just the kids but more the whole of the generation which is so materialistic that nothing else matters.

The nanny state and political correctness in this country now means that anything other than a slap on the bum is outlawed. This may sound like it will help stop child abuse but those who would abuse a child will still abuse a child, whilst those who would give a 'clip round the ear' or a slap on the bum now don't dare.

Couple that with the parents of this generation who will not work for less than '£X' and hour because it isn't worth it. Then complain about 'foreigners' stealing their jobs. It is a contradiction. The 'foreigners' are taking the jobs that the English were refusing to take because it fell beneath their '£x' requirement.

Why do they have '£x' requirement? because these days they must have the instant beautiful house. They have the whole electrics kaboodle in, with games consoles, multiple tellys, every gadget going and £30+ monthly mobile phones.

Then we hear how they are struggling to survive because of the 'cost of living'.

30 years ago council estates didn't have that many cars on them. These days there are loads of brand new cars on them. That is a huge 'cost of living' for a demographic that used to work on the land, or building sites, or factories where they got subsidised transport to and from work. These days they won't do that work. Can't pay for the car doing that work as well as keep their electrical harem going.

Then we have the last government who threw money at all in the form of tax credits. This was all well and good but it escalated as time went on to buy votes. Even people earning 50k were getting them towards the end. We are now at a stage where all the political parties consider less than £30,000 a year to be poor. They say it, everyone believes it and therefore everyone is poor :)

Then we have the 'poverty' gauge where if your energy bills are 10% or more then you are in poverty. Lets get real about this. If you are that poor you should be prioritising things. What is that 10% comparable to 30 years ago? I would suggest they should not be talking about £ but usage if they want to get this statement clearer. If foolish people who cannot see the wood through the trees choose to have absolute kaboodles of electrics running all day, have every light on in the house throughout the whole dark period and the CH running while they stand with the front door open all day (yes I live on a council street and this is pretty true of most at least on this street) then they are no in poverty. They are idiots who are throwing their own (or in many cases someone else's) money down the drain.

Never mind how the cuts affect them, or how hard done by they are, or how foreigners are taking their jobs, or how there are no prospects for them. Take a lesson from the previous generations who demonstrated about real issues whilst at the same time, tightening their belts.

As to the young girl who suggested that adults don't respect the youth and until they did the youth wouldn't respect adults. Wake up dear. The problem is we have given too much respect to youth and now we are paying the price for it because youth does not understand what respect is. They don't understand it is earnt and they don't understand it is a 2 way thing.

In essence. Its not labour's fault. It is the whole political system's fault. Through political correctness, the nanny state, human rights and the sue/blame culture we now cannot do anything for ourselves, we now cannot be trusted to think, we cannot say what we think because it may offend someone. We cannot suggest some of society are bad parents because we are not in a thinktank that is the only place that 'really knows' what the problem is.

This all needs to change because 30 years ago there was bullying, there were thugs, louts et al. But not on the scale of these days and those thugs and louts only needed an adult or 2 to tell them to 'clear awf' and they did. These days would you dare to tell athem to 'clear awf'? A policeman would walk on his own even on the estates and the kids would respect them.

Its about time the prisons were made prisons. That benefits were vouchers only to spent on neccessities and for bailiffs to go to those on long term benefits and take possessions to go towards the cost of those benefits. Then maybe some people would get back to reality and learn you have to work to get more chances, they do not fall on your lap, You have to earn respect, it isn't a given right, and you have to have morals to be considered an equal to the rest of us.

Andy
 
Andy, please put that in letter form and post it to;

David Cameron
Prime Minister
10 Downing Street
London
SW1A 2AA
 
Andy,

Agree with all the above....well written and thanks for sharing your thoughts

I did see that little interview with the girl you mention. That rant of hers alone left me speechless.....what can a person say or do to change that kind of attitude huh?

SuperColey1 said:
As to the young girl who suggested that adults don't respect the youth and until they did the youth wouldn't respect adults. Wake up dear. The problem is we have given too much respect to youth and now we are paying the price for it because youth does not understand what respect is. They don't understand it is earnt and they don't understand it is a 2 way thing.
 
Jase said:
Andy, please put that in letter form and post it to;

David Cameron
Prime Minister
10 Downing Street
London
SW1A 2AA

I don't think we need to do that. If you listen to yesterdays statement outside 10 downing street I think he (speaking for all politicians) is finally able to start speaking the obvious.

The problem is though that whilst all the politicians have been very scared to talk about these issues for fear of losing votes, they will be very tentative to how far they can actually retrieve things. This attitude is a world problem not UK. By that I of course mean in the so called 'developed' world.

To clarify that I mean that where our parents were chuffed to bits to be able to buy a good house on a good street even if it meant no TV and no chairs and no redecorating the current generation are not happy with that. Has to look as close to a show home within the first year (if that long.)

Maybe get me some flack but while lots of people are complaining about reckless banks costing them money they forget that those reckless banks were lending money to those who could not wait to improve their lives. Could not save up. Had to have it now. I'm not taking the blame away from the banks because they should not have been so reckless but we as the consumer were the ones that put pen to paper and took on the debts. Myself included. Its taken me 4 years to get from 14k in debt to £1k in debt. Never ever thinking about the easy way out of bankruptcy or the other thing what ever that is, can't remember it's initials. I took on that debt. I made myself struggle. I made my family poor and whilst the recession and losing jobs didn't help matters I will sort out these problems for myself without running through the streets blaming everyone else and putting someone else in financial or emotional hardship. We have a roof over our heads. Superb credit record even though I have no job (I am a real job seeker, not a turn up fortnightly and make out I am) My children do not starve and we have a reasonably nice decor.

Yes times are tough, we live week to week mostly but no excuses. I choose any luxuries and I do not consider those luxuries as a cost of living. In fact to my wife's disgust I sold the car 2 months ago. Was not a necessity even with a new baby born last week.

I would also say the next 'thinktank rep' or politician that tries to suggest this is something to do with funding either to youth centres, or deprived areas or anything similar I will tear my hair out.

Do they really think if a youth centre was open on these estates that these youths would choose to go to them? There were youth centres when I and my father were youths but we didn't go to them. They were boring. In my day and in my dad's day there was not a huge difference to today. We were young. we attained beers and walked the streets. We did naughty things. We never disrespected elders though and we never caused grevious damage to anything or anyone. We walked the streets with the 2 cans we had managed to get hold of. We drank them peacefully with our friends and then tried to sneak back into the house without our parents smelling the berr on our breath. I dare say we both took illicit substances too (although I can't vouch for my dad) but we did all this under the fear of our parents finding out. Not fear of anything physical. More a fear of feeling ashamed. Of being told off. It was because we respected our parents and all elders (that deserved respect.)

I well remember the times when a policeman would spot you and approach you and your friends on his own and question you on how you had attained the beer with no fear at all. I well remember our sadness as he took each and every bottle or can from us and poored them down the drain in front of our eyes. But we didn't even speak a bad word. If we did we very quickly apologised and then mooched home. That was because we respected authority.

So none of this is anything to do with young disaffected people. This has everything to do with the loss of respect and loss of morals within society in general and Cameron was spot on yesterday when he said 'we haven't just got a broken society, there are pockets of our society that are sick'

That was bang on and I would say most politicians from all sides (apart from Ken Livingstone) drew a huge sigh of relief within them that finally it has been said and may (although I doubt) we can forget this garbage of 'disaffected youth' and push the argument onto morals and discipline and respect. If not then this is the forerunner of ever more increasing unrest and the more decades/generations it takes to retrieve this situation the harder it will be to return to it.

It wasn't a lost generation 20-30 years ago. Most of them have respoect however those they label the lost generation may well be the parents who have brought up the real 'lost generation'. that is those who are youths now and have lived through 2 decades of not knowing what discipline is.

Sorry guys, I know I'm ranting but I've been saying this for years. I've been disgusted with it for years and I fear the worst for our country's future as once this 'blows over' I think the politicians will gloss over it all with 'youth policies' and even more benefits for the youth. Its gonna cost us all (including me when I do get back to work) a lot of money to pay for wasted schemes that will have no effect whatsoever yet are hailed as life changing.

Can I just say yes I am on the dole at the mo, In my whole life this is week 17 on benefits having for the majority of 20 years either paid tax and Ni Myself (or as the last couple of years my wife.) Not bad going seeing as I was made redundant twice in the nineties :)

A sad and embarrassed patriot I am :(
Andy
 
Back
Top