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fishie related petition - sign?

fishfingers said:
I wonder how many of the people who are so agaist this have themselves kept goldfish in a bowl when they where kids i know i did its what got me started in this hobby. its easy to take the moral high ground and say that this should not go on but this is where kids learn about life and death we shouldnt keep hamsters in a cage or rabbits in a hutch but we do. If keeping a goldfish in a bowl as a child educates and encurages the next generation to take up this fasinateing hobby then so be it.
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I kept a Betta in a bowl, not a Goldfish, the thing got ich and fin rot, did my research and upgraded him to a 5 gallon proper filtered, heated tank, had him for a few years in the end! I wouldn't have done if he'd stayed in the bowl.

I'm a big rabbit keeper too, big on rabbit welfare! This is my bunny set up, they are never shut into the hutch, that's a WHOLE different discussion!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/catxx/5696516127/
 
Your conversation can be compared to a group of pseudo-environmentalists call.
Prohibiting killing animals, instead of fighting for their good treatment.
By what right and reasoning you compare the requirements of the goldfish to the requirements of other species.
Species with your breeding in the wild live in large tanks, even though the fish are smaller. Subsequent rewriting of literary nonsense!

Let's keep the way you want fish, preserving their welfare.
 
Some in the industry still promote tiny tanks and bowls for goldfish and in my view that is totally inappropriate. One cant then be surprised when Joe clueless thinks its all fine and dandy to keep the fish in a poor environment.

The goldfish bowl is very well entrenched, education I think is the best way, it would help if the aquatics industry was not so contradictory about it.
 
It would be useful explain to people how the fish behave during the oxygen deficit.
Goldfish like fresh water. You can change water twice a week and goldfish will be in good mood.
It is important to maintain your pet in observation and proper diet.

Just as with the bigger dog that has a larger doghouse.

It is possible to keep fancy goldfish in the bowl in good conditions
I know this from personal experience and I don't think that injure my pets in any way.

Bans is not a solution. Who had a goldfish knows that the difference in their behavior. There are supporters of dogs and cats supporters, supporters of goldfish and supporters Tanganyika fish.


Maybe could you have a small aquarium in comparison 34.4 thousand. sq km lake?
 
I think that to house properly a gold fish on a bowl, unless it is a large bowl, one would need to change water several times per day.

That said, attach a large filter to a biorb, and it maybe would be good. :) Just as well that my kids started their fish keeping with manzy wood, neons and guppies, and know that having a filter is important, and changing water. :)

All hangs on education, at schools, forums, pet shops, etc.
 
So far as I see it, if this little petition got enough votes to go up before the Government they would be forced to have a similar discussion as all you guys have just done and surely that would be a good thing? I still hear of secondary school science experiments involving teachers handing out Goldfish or Guppies for kids to try and keep alive in half a plastic 2 litre coke bottle o_O

Educating joe public about proper fishkeeping needs to start with those who do the teaching in the first place, and so far as I can see many aquatic shops try their darndest to educate fish bowl people into why its wrong, to only have the phrase "well I've done it before and it was FINE" thrown back in their face, said would-be-customer storms out and goes to the nearest crappier pet shop and buys that Goldfish and Goldfish starter kit anyway.
 
Still, no one gave sensible reasons why you should not keep goldfish in ball.
 
I would think of much more reasons not to, but if not for the fish for ourselves then: Bowls are boring, dirty looking, and too tacky.

Here are five reasons why you should avoid using a goldfish bowl:

Goldfish bowls are too small.

Goldfish can easily grow to several inches in length with good care, and monster goldfish of over six inches are not unheard of. Now, imagine living in a room the size of your bed. That’s about the equivalent for a goldfish in a bowl. Not nice.

They can deprive goldfish of oxygen.
Goldfishes need oxygen from the water, just like we need oxygen from the air. Too little oxygen and they become stressed, and may even die. One of the things that affects how much oxygen is in the water is the surface area, which is where the water meets the air. You can think of oxygen crossing over into water like fans at a football game going through a turnstile. A lot of fans and only a few turnstiles is a recipe for slow turnover. Similarly, a small surface area with a bigger volume of water below (caused by the bulging of the bowl) means not enough oxygen is getting through for your pet.

Goldfish bowls are boring, for your fish and for you.
A goldfish bowl is too small to get much decoration into, so the fish is lucky to get some gravel or marbles and a pebble or two. Soon you’ve got a fish too bored to swim and an owner too bored to care. Not a recipe for healthy goldfish.

Bowls get dirty too quickly.
Some new kinds of bowls include filters, but the traditional goldfish bowl isn’t compatible with the technology that can keep an aquarium clean. Result: dirty water and gravel. Admittedly goldfish bowls are quick to clean, but only because they’re so small, and we’ve already discussed why that’s bad.

You can only keep one goldfish in a bowl.
You might get by with a couple of inmates for a while, but sooner or later you’ll forget to do a water change or overfeed the fish and the bowl will pollute too quickly. With just one goldfish in a bowl this problem is somewhat reduced, but goldfish are friendly, naturally shoaling fish that prefer the company of their fellows. It’s cruel to keep them alone.
 
I have the ball and somehow I do not have a problem with dirty water. Spoof once a week. So that there was no problem with oxygen.
The ball does not fill completely. Through it has more the air-water contact.
As for the size of the tank. Fish grow more slowly in a small tank. An example might be dwarf forms of American catfish recessed into European waters. Besides it is known that fish will grow as it can be fitted with a larger tank.

Since when know the thoughts of fish. Is there bored? More so as you can say about Tropheus sp transferred from the great lake to a small aquarium.

Are you bored? If you love goldfish, I think you never be bored. Their behavior can be compared to the domesticated dog.
 
with common/comet Goldfish easily hitting 10" in the correct conditions, fancies at least 6", not including the tail, there is no way that kind of chunk should ever live in a 10L bowl. yes their growth slows and gets stunted, but that's by water quality NOT tank size. if you kept a small Goldfish in a 10L bowl and did manage to keep water quality correct it would try and grow quick, and then become extremely stressed, then die from stress related disorders.

bowls are a lose-lose situation for fish. the only exception being properly set up walstad tanks, of which aren't really suitable for Goldies as they are just too messy to keep that delicate balance stable.
 
echinod said:
As for the size of the tank. Fish grow more slowly in a small tank. An example might be dwarf forms of American catfish recessed into European waters. Besides it is known that fish will grow as it can be fitted with a larger tank.
.
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This the clue that we are not on the same level of understanding. So the fish would grow slowly on a small tank? And you are justifying the size of american catfish when on European waters? As if an European lake or river was that much smaller than the american. :lol: Have you thought that maybe the catfish grow smaller in Europe due to the water temperature?

It's ok, no issue, I don't have to prove I am right to know that I am right. :)
 
Water quality is preserved by substitution.

Ignorance and lack of knowledge based on facts.

Someone has heard and repeated on ...


Maybe you start to catch crucian from forest ponds :lol:
 
echinod said:
Water quality is preserved by substitution.
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But doing this enough to keep a miserable Goldfish alive in a small unfiltered container will result in a stressed fish, water changes are a shock to fish and the size and quantity you'd need to do would be vastly more than in a proper establish BIG tank or a good sized established pond. And stress kill fish as we all know.

echinod said:
Maybe you start to catch crucian from forest ponds :lol:
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I think it may be Kent, may be wrong, where there's a massive problem with released Goldfish, aka ornamental crucian carp, overwhelming lakes and rivers and damaging native ecology. So yes you can get these carp, and BIG too, in wild places in the UK.

I think Luis and I and yourself are going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

In my eyes there is absolutely no excuse for not keeping a big messy fish like a Goldfish in anything less than huge over filtered tanks or large ponds. They need the same dimensions of housing as big Cichlids like Oscars and Midas.
 
I am sure that it is wrong keeping a big messy fish like a Goldfish in anything less than huge over filtered tanks or large ponds. They need the same dimensions of housing as big Cichlids like Oscars and Midas.

My kids also asked me about keeping a goldfish, so I told them that if they could stay all day inside the cupboard, eat on it, and use the toilet there also, I gave them a bucket, they could have one. The 7 year old tried, lasted for 2 hours. :) lesson learnt. LOL

So now just guppies on the 30L tank, and just young fish, once they are large I take them to a local shop.
 
But doing this enough to keep a miserable Goldfish alive in a small unfiltered container will result in a stressed fish, water changes are a shock to fish and the size and quantity you'd need to do would be vastly more than in a proper establish BIG tank or a good sized established pond. And stress kill fish as we all know.
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Yes stress kill fish, but keeping fish in bowl doesn't mean stress.

I think it may be Kent, may be wrong, where there's a massive problem with released Goldfish, aka ornamental crucian carp, overwhelming lakes and rivers and damaging native ecology. So yes you can get these carp, and BIG too, in wild places in the UK.
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I guess you mean Carassius gibelio. He has bad meat and is stunted. There is no problem with Carassius auratus.
Which reaches the normal size and it is tasty. So do not is a problem for the rational fisheries and ecology.

In my eyes there is absolutely no excuse for not keeping a big messy fish like a Goldfish in anything less than huge over filtered tanks or large ponds. They need the same dimensions of housing as big Cichlids like Oscars and Midas.
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The size of the fish is not a determinant of the areas of its existence. We have small fish in big lakes and big fish in small ponds with oxygen deficit like Tinca tinca.


We are all about providing good conditions for fish. Let us not be the gauge, not everyone has to have a little ball and bad conditions in water.
 
echinod said:
Yes stress kill fish, but keeping fish in bowl doesn't mean stress.
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Yes it does. Keep a big growing fish in a small environment with fluctuating water quality it will become stressed.

echinod said:
The size of the fish is not a determinant of the areas of its existence. We have small fish in big lakes and big fish in small ponds with oxygen deficit like Tinca tinca.
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A pond/lake cannot be compared to a glass bowl sitting on a table. Ponds and lakes are FILTERED by rains, plants and earth, and the bacteria within the earth. Bowls are stagnant with an unstable water chemistry, especially if you have very messy fish in it. See: walstad method.
 
Yes it does. Keep a big growing fish in a small environment with fluctuating water quality it will become stressed.
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Childish shouting o_O

A pond/lake cannot be compared to a glass bowl sitting on a table. Ponds and lakes are FILTERED by rains, plants and earth, and the bacteria within the earth. Bowls are stagnant with an unstable water chemistry, especially if you have very messy fish in it. See: walstad method.
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I'll tell you just buy yourself a ball, oxygen meter, test the ammonia, and above all a goldfish, which probably you never had not.
 
echinod said:
I'll tell you just buy yourself a ball, oxygen meter, test the ammonia, and above all a goldfish, which probably you never had not.
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Why would I willingly torture a Goldfish? Besides, my local aquatic stores won't sell Goldfish to unfiltered tanks anyway, and have quite a few huge ones in too. I should never have to test for ammonia in my tanks.

I have never had a Goldfish in a bowl. My parents had a brain and knew it was wrong so growing up, never had one. I did have a Betta in a bowl, he was lethargic, he got ich, he got fin rot, he got upgraded to a heated 30L filtered, planted and cycled tank and lived on for several years.
 
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