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Illegal Fish and LFS'

Gill

Member
Joined
17 Mar 2008
Messages
3,898
Location
Coventry
Okay so over the last week I have been in discussion with a few government departments and PFK(Nathan), over a few fish I bought.

I had taken my Little Boy to try out a new playgroup. He did not like it so we went to a garden centre that has a nice Soft play area for children. When we got there it was really busy and there was a queue to get in. So decided to take him round the LFS that is 'Instore'.
Browsing the tanks for a while I had made my Mind up to buy some Scarlet Badis'. Then I caught sight of some fish I had not seen In A long time. Hi-Fin Sharks, I immediately asked one of the staff it the ban had been lifted on these fish. They were adamant that the ban had been lifted on these, and a licence was no longer required for these fish. Okay so I bought 2.

Got Home and still had a niggling feeling that they may have lied, ( they stated that they have been popular and have had them on sale for a while). So posted on the PFK wall on FB admin by Nathan Hill. He got back very quick to say that after looking around, nothing had changed and they were still on the banned list. He pointed me in the direction of DEFRA.
WhichI had already started with and found the ILFA Application for Non Native Species. They were still on there, so fired off an email to DEFRA and Cefas. Both parties contacted me and confirmed that it is still as i suspected. I returned the Fish this morning for a full refund, as they were not cheap either. Cefas Asked for the name of the LFS and I advised them of which LFS it is.



Would you have told them which store it is, that is was selling the illegal fish. I feel I have done the right thing, as they are falsely selling the fish to unwitting customers. Who may land themselves in alot of trouble, as did the gentleman who was caught with them a few years back.
 
I would have told them which store it was without question - If enough shops are doing this world wide it could directly lead to the extinction of that species, not something we really want to burden the hobby with!

It's bad enough with marine\reef keeping and wild collected animals, I can see this becoming more of a problem in the future as habitat loss increases on land.

Well done for pursuing it Gill!
 
It's such a shame that a minority spoil these fish and others for the majority. I used to have a similar fish which had a trade name of Amur Sucker which now is also banned. On a similar note I was at outsideinside a few months ago and he had the Dwarf Mexican Crayfish. I was quite excited about these and had money for them. I went down to get them they were in a display tank not for sale as they were illegal and classed as an invasive species. Then last week I saw them for sale in water wonders for £30 each which is a steap price to pay. But I asked a member of staff and he said that if they were banned they wouldn't have made it through customs. Can anyone clarify this for me?
 
Gill said:
Would you have told them which store it is, that is was selling the illegal fish. I feel I have done the right thing

+1.
You did the right thing :thumbup:
 
Hi all,
Then last week I saw them (Dwarf Mexican Crayfish) for sale in water wonders for £30 each which is a steep price to pay. But I asked a member of staff and he said that if they were banned they wouldn't have made it through customs. Can anyone clarify this for me?
They are definitely banned. All Crayfish are, other than Cherax quadricarinatus. There are no legal Cambarellus species, we had this come up on another forum where I'm staff after someone offered "Mexican orange crayfish" for sale. I believe that these have been offered for sale at a well known large pet chain as well.

You need to contact Dr Paul Stebbing at CEFAS/FHI in Weymouth.

FHI on 01305 206673 or
email: fish.health.inspectorate@cefas.co.uk.

cheers Darrel
 
Interesting, Never really thought about Crayfish being illegal. I do see how they could decimate a local population if released into the wild, As i have read about some that are able to self clone.
 
Gill said:
Interesting, Never really thought about Crayfish being illegal. I do see how they could decimate a local population if released into the wild, As i have read about some that are able to self clone.

There are so few native crayfish left already as the american crayfish have smashed there numbers, on up side i love catching the americans for a tasty meal and put the few natives back. 5 x native - 100 x american each net.
 
I was under the impression it was that the american crays carried a plague which was what wiped out the natives? A lot of the research we have is from Germany who have a real problem with non-natives gone feral which is the reason for the outright cray ban.
 
Is grassing on the store the correct thing to do? The store may have been unaware these fish were illegal in the trade, and assumed that if it came up on an importers list that they were legal to import / sell in the uk?
 
You need a to obtain a license for them up here in Scotland but I doubt they give them Outsideinside was rejected one. Another fish which you need a license for up here but not in England is Channa sp. But it may be another fish heading on the band list as this too is classed as an invasive species.
 
Didnt know you was a channa fan Tom! I have a channa pannaw :)

I think you did the right thing mate, for sure

They knew that they had got a batch to sell to make some bucks, they knew there was a ban in the 1st place you, should of looked into it before importing.
 
nayr88 said:
they knew there was a ban in the 1st place you, should of looked into it before importing.

Did they though? Do you think the shop has time to investigate the legal status of species every time something new pops up on the importers list?

Yes fair enough you could probably expect an experienced aquarist to know they were illegal. But if a fish comes up on an importers list most would just assume they are legally able to be imported and would do so without realising their error.

Fair enough if the shop intentionally imported an illegal fish then by all means report them, but we don't necessarily know that's the case, they may be completely unaware

You say the shop told you the ban had been lifted, one could quite easily assume that if something previously banned appeared on an import list that the ban had therefore been lifted
 
Joecoral said:
nayr88 said:
they knew there was a ban in the 1st place you, should of looked into it before importing.

Did they though? Do you think the shop has time to investigate the legal status of species every time something new pops up on the importers list?

Yes fair enough you could probably expect an experienced aquarist to know they were illegal. But if a fish comes up on an importers list most would just assume they are legally able to be imported and would do so without realising their error.

there's no excuse for it, its their business and should be aware of any regulations relating to that business.
In an ideal world importers would know but given they probably ship to many countries its unrealistic to believe they will be more knowledgeable than retailers in each country. The buck stops at uk retailers in relation to uk regulation.
 
TBH, It is down to the store and the person who does the ordering. To make sure they are within the current government guidlines. You would never see this type of mistake being made @ some of the MA stores I visit. Thru questioning I know they are always up to date on legislation, As they Import alot of fish direct from farms in Asia.
A Company as big as WOW should Know better, and the mistakes of a few employees could jeopardise the store.
 
sanj said:
What puzzles me a little is if you knew about the species and the huge size they get to, what made you purchase them?

Yes I know about the Size requirements for the adults, but as they are such slow growers it was not an issue.
 
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