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Let's talk aquascaping "the future"

I don't think we 'need' or are 'looking' for anything new. I don't try and do new things TBH. I do see new things though.

Like all traditional Artists or music. there doesn't 'need' to be something new. However every now and again something just happens and its a big bang.

There didn't need to be NA. Dutch and older methods were fine, however NA comes along and......bang.

So personally I don't think a new style is needed however I do feel NA is starting to have run its course and we either continue with the more traditional styles albeit with more focus on the way we light the tank and background or the way we setup the style. namely forget the ever increasing overly crafted 'trainset style' or we try and do something totally different.

There are scapers who are doing new things within the NA traditional framework without resorting to such detailed modelling styles. There are others already who have taken their influence from the NA and translated it into something new. You just need to watch and see. The problem there being that NA style is enveloping anything that it can. Not Amano but others who will say everything that is landscape based is NA.

So something will happen whether we need it or not. And it will either be a VHS moment or a Betamx moment. namely it will be a big bang or a flash in the pan.

Andy
 
Stephan said:
What strikes me is that in garden design we have numerous styles and directions whereas in aquarium design we only really have two. (Ok, I regress - there are a few more but for the sake of the argument, let's call it two: NA and Dutch).
I have been wondering why that is and I come to the conclusion that it is because an aquarium does not have the necessity to function practically. In other words: Because an aquarium is there for sheer pleasure.

Landscape design has to deal with various aspects of utility and whilst that is a real constraint for any designer, it is at the same time a great guide and, indeed, justification for a design. We don't have that in an aquarium and therefore, creating something (new) is all the harder. People participating in this thread have tried to come up with new ideas but it has been quiet for some time now. To me, that goes to show how hard it is to come up with something so revolutionary new and exciting as Amano has managed to.

I have asked this before and I ask again: Do we need something new already? Are we starting to get bored by repeating variations of the same theme? It seems so. Earlier in this thread I said that I thought that many of the new interpretations were misunderstandings and some people were better off with miniature train sets. While it is not up to me to decide what is aesthetically sound and what is not, it shows that there is a great hunger for something new and cool and the old ways of the Nature Aquarium are getting diversified to an extent where the whole thing becomes far removed from the original idea. Which originally was to represent a snapshot of nature in a poetic, not biological way.

Personally, I think my next door neighbour's japanese garden is a real turnoff because it is badly executed and full of blatant truisms. (Apart from that - it doesn't belong in a provincial German backwater but then again, if it was a great piece of art, why not). The recent trend to copy terrestrial landscapes such as trees, paths and even waterfalls under water is the aquarium counterpart to that. And it documents the helplessness of people on a mission to find something new and exciting. But why do we need that? In the Netherlands, people have for almost a hundred years designed the most beautiful aquariums and rather than looking for something new, they are further developing the style. With new plants emerging rapidly, the Dutch aquarium is a very pure form of aquatic gardening: The focus is on combining plants. IMHO, this is a very difficult discipline which will take me a lifetime to get the hang of.

One more thing about the Dutch aquarium style: They have rules. And this brings me back to what I said earlier: Since aquaria don't have to function like a landscaped plot, everything is allowed: Trees, treasure chests, skulls... you get my drift. So rather than trying to launch a new trend maybe we need to classify the old trends. In NA there could be Biotope, Amano Old School, Creative (Waterfalls are so 2010 - the next big thing will be campfires), Iwagumi (We already have that) and so forth. If we start to apply rules in the same sense that the Dutch do, then we might get somewhere without having to go looking for something new.

My 2 Euro-cents.

--Stephan

Excellent commentary Stephan.

I think folks pander to Amano and ADA, eg, "Fan boys", the same may be stated for nice Dutch style scapes.
Few really want to challenge them or go beyond and take risk.

I set up aquariums for myself, no one else, not Amano, ADA etc..............I also consider the location in my house. I never place them in a my bedroom for example, that is where I sleep, not watch fish.

I have not entered a single competition ever. I likely never shall either. For myself, it's an intenal issue, a judgement of myself and desires. I do not disagree with competitions. They can help improve aquarist ability and draw new people into the hobby.

Same can be said for using CO2 gas however...........

Biotopes are tough, because it is often VERY hard to get plants, wood, sediments and fish from one single location.
I think more hobbyists should travel and see the locations where aquatic submersed plants exists and then see about modeling those locations. Landscapes are nice, and Japanese landscaping is where Amano takes his art from and placed it in the aquarium, all one has to do is pick up some Japanese gardening books and suddenly you see exactly where the ideas and designs come from.

The designs are not novel, but the application is/was when Amano did this and then he ran with it. A pretty pic sells in ANY language also.

I've always had a more simple practical approach to design, I suppose because I have an engineering bent. I ask questions" What is it that I want to see when I look into this space? Do I wish to see all the way through to back of the glass? How about maintenance and care? Do I want to sell the plants/livestock and have the hobby pay for itself? How can I incorporate these into the design? What interesting scape material do I have available? Where should I place the aquarium and what size should it be? What external designs should I use if I wish to garden often? Do I want to design something someone else has already done or something new?"

There are many good questions aquarist should ask themselves.
Many see the competition pics and feel inadequate..........they feel they cannot do things like that. This is unfortunate. I do not suggest that route, rather, what they want, their goals, and if that happens to win a competition? Great.

I think folks should REALLY consider the impact their comments have on newbies. Snooty attitudes really irritate newbies. Heck, me too. An aquarist who has achieved their goal is a happy aquarist, so we should help others/newbies achieve those goals. Design is part of it, but they need to have enough horticultural skills to get the design fully executed as well.

This leaves things open and less rigid than an Academy Style school approach. I like risk, life without them is not a life worthwhile to me. Also, simply try and sit and think if you like the rick or wood or plant in that spot in the tank........

Much of this is more simple and less complex than we often times suggest.
 
A couple of photos as an inspiration for your mountain-iwagumi scapes:

6222837781_872c1f6f3c_b.jpg

6223358244_3dbcef8ff0_b.jpg

6222839021_81e4829764_b.jpg


Sadly this is the third time I go there and no clear sky, hopefully next time ... :lol:
Collected some nice wood from there too.

Mike
 
Lovely! Those outcrops are very rounded, not as sharp as most of the usual stuff. Where were those pics taken?

(P.S: I hope your images will not spark a new "submersed mist" trend now, Mike! I am sure someone will figure out how it can be done, though...)
 
:lol: Stephan .. well it can be done without special techniques .. do the aquascape looking sideways in a long tank, light the front side and let the other in the shade and voila .. misty :) (Tom has a nice big tank ideal for this but he's too concentrated with farming :) )

Glad you like them, the photos are made in the Ciucas mountains / Romania. I'll go there again for sure.

Cheers,
Mike
 
Impressive tread guys.
I see the discussion goes a lot about new in the aquascaping. It is good to look for the new. It keeps on going development and progress. The trouble is that in order to move to something new a definition is required for what is now. As some guys mentioned here the Dutch style is governed by some rules. I believe the NA should be too. Other wise what ever anyone can do as new would be easily qualified as look a like to some older design, which is basically a dead end and of course a way to ignore some and glorify others intentionally.
Needless to say that creativity will be pushed in a relatively narrow direction – winning contests. With other words what ever the judges say is best.
That is why there are only two major styles Dutch and NA. Only one of them have rules. The other is anything goes.
As far as I can see the objective is moving from aquatic plants layout to; Sci-Fi layout, super cool and impossible to find in nature what ever layout, or a huge tree root with a bit of green here and there you name it.
I see more and more wow aquascapes winning and less and less plant layouts.
It would appear that the time for no plant layouts is not that far. All seems to be moving to super cool hard scape now.
The aquascaping contests are loosing the message for nature and are becoming more and more nature look a like building business and photography not lasting and durable in time aquariums.

I have a lot of respect for the Dutch style, because it is based on the ability of the aquarists to grow plants, not to the availability of huge sums of money that can buy the best hard scape materials, photo cameras and all the cool dude toys and win contests that way.

I do not mind the wow works, but I believe more attention should be paid to what does the aquarist know about aquatic life and how much he can develop that in aquarium.
 
Mark Evans said:
Really?...to me, they both have rules. o_O

Hey Mark, I think Aquadream was referring to some posts made earlier in this thread. He's not wrong - "rules" in Dutch Aquarium judging are much stricter and less open to personal taste than what is true for Nature Aquascaping these days. I think what Aquadream calls "Wow Aquascapes" are particularly extreme layouts people submit to create something new (and they tend to be successful in contests). I will be visiting three award winning aquarists in Holland next weekend and I will ask them about how they prepare their aquariums for judging. I'll try and find the time to post some answers in this thread.

--Stephan
 
I belive that amano`s origanal style has been superseded by the winners of his own compition, and the epic scaled down version`s of real life clif face`s and forists are in themselve`s a new style altogther than the origanal idea they are all still called nature aquarium because they are in his compition.
 
Mark Evans said:
Aquadream said:
That is why there are only two major styles Dutch and NA. Only one of them have rules. The other is anything goes.

Really?...to me, they both have rules. o_O
Well then. The name of IAPLC stands for International Aquatic Plant Layout Contests, right? Just see how many of the leading works are actually about plant layouts or about growing plants and developing aquatic life. That observation should give a good idea of what that contest is about. Look at #1 in 2011. It is bunch of weird looking rocks, impossible to stand in any nature as they are in the tank and with very little amount of plants around.
#1 from 2010 was with a lot of plants, very good scape, but also with a lot of BBA on all of the woods, clearly visible on HD photo.
All I am trying to say here is that the IAPLC rules are gibberish, because the final grading does not conform to them.
How is that IAPLC does pronounce rules for that competition, but in the end it all comes down to the judges personal opinion. That is what I read in the IAPLC web site.

In the Dutch competitions non of ADA's grading works. Hell, those guys will even pull out some of your plants to see if they were really grown in your scape and how did actually that happened. Now that is what I call rules.

Having said all of the above I will get back to the new.
The Dutch competitions will come up eventually with something new sooner or later, because they have clear criteria to define what is new and what is not.

IAPLC and other look a like contests will continue to be free land "artistry" gatherings, because there is no way to differentiate the new from the old there. Just a huge pile of nice stuff created for the sole purpose of winning the big prize..... And please I ask kindly that no one gives me the hollow crap; But I am participating for the fun and so on....
I do not buy this talk.

Congrats for your #95 this year. :D You seem to be a very good photographer. I have Canon 600D and perhaps can get some advice from you on what to do with it. :?
 
Scaping goodies ... same location as the last pictures.
jpdmc2.jpg

Arctostaphylos uva-ursi (and others) resembles a bit with manzanita, think they are the same family ... collected some for a future scape, you have it also in UK.

Mike
 
Moderators!!!

Please make this a sticky thread.....

I love coming back to read and re-read and re-re-read.....

niru
 
Hi all,
Arctostaphylos uva-ursi
It is "Bearberry", but it is an uncommon plant in the UK, unless you live on the limestones in the N. of Scotland. I've only seen it in Western Ireland (Burren), but it grows almost prostrate there.

These plants are all members of the Ericaceae, the commonest ones in the UK would be the Heathers, Erica cinerea, E. tetralix and Calluna vulgaris, Billberry (Vaccinium myrtillus) and the introduced but widespread "wild" Rhododendron R.ponticum. I'd keep away from Rhododendron, but the others should be all right.

A few Heathers are common in gardens, including ones like the winter flowering heathers E. herbacea, which will grow on limy soil (most of the rest won't). There are a couple of "Tree heaths" (Erica lusitanica, E. erigena & E. vagans bit smaller) at work, I'll have a look and see what I can find.

cheers Darrel
 
Stephan said:
Mark Evans said:
Really?...to me, they both have rules. o_O

Hey Mark, I think Aquadream was referring to some posts made earlier in this thread. He's not wrong - "rules" in Dutch Aquarium judging are much stricter and less open to personal taste than what is true for Nature Aquascaping these days. I think what Aquadream calls "Wow Aquascapes" are particularly extreme layouts people submit to create something new (and they tend to be successful in contests). I will be visiting three award winning aquarists in Holland next weekend and I will ask them about how they prepare their aquariums for judging. I'll try and find the time to post some answers in this thread.

--Stephan

Yes, they are very strict, but many change things the day or the visit to make up and score higher.

For example, lower the nutrients in the water= the higher your score will be.
So a nice rich EI dosed tank full of lush well growing plants would score poorly, unless I "cheated" and did a couple of massive water changes the day they where to stop by. A day or so of no macros etc would be fine..........

Still, this is run by hobbyists, not a company, so there's little promotion outside NR. We cannot have a committee to come and judge people's tanks all over the world. A company with a professional aquarium photographer, perhaps the best freshwater photographer in this generation...........with the super nice pics.........he does not need to speak the language....these sell ice machines to Eskimo.

So good pics.......lots of them, a company promoting their style.....a bunch of westerners who have few clues about the essence of Japanese gardens.........or having seen many.........or fall into the myths and baloney surrounding them. The Dutch? they have a long history as well, but both styles are different in their goals and criteria.

Much like bonsai, after the natural ones where removed, they started to try and make natural looking ones from cultivated trees. How to make it look natural without being cultivate is not a simple thing to teach. This is in essence what Nature style tries to impart.

They(ADA) seem to leave a massive swath for anything goes, rather than focusing strongly on the terrestrial approaches that this style originally came from, those are traditional and very old styles with a long history.

Still, the bottom line is: if it looks good, it is good.

I use Japanese Sukiya for my home, but often go towards the Dutch style for aquariums, but I have both styles in my aquariums.
 
Let's talk aquascaping "the future"

I believe that keeping Bonsai,Japanese rock gardens and ADA style is very similar.

I have visited a large bonsai retailer in Cape Town, a private house with a large garden with lots and lots of bonsai, rock placements and moss on trays and if definitely reminded me of iwagumis and NA styles.




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