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CO² Regulator Problem

Mark Webb

Mark Webb

Member
Joined
27 Nov 2008
Messages
365
Every day I set my regulator up just right and it runs for the few hours for the remainder of the day at the same level and switches off on the timed solenoid. The following day when the solenoid switches on, CO² is belting out at a high level in the bubble counter and it needs resetting again. This is happening on a daily basis.

Any ideas for a solution would be welcome :?
 
Hi mark

it well flow fast for the first few mins it just were the pressure has backed up mine dose the same for a few min after it comes on after about 5 min it settles to the right amount

set reg to 2/2.5 bar then with needle valve set to your required BPS (bubbles per sec) you shouldn't need to adjust it every day

set it up and leave it for for 20 mins see if it easy off im sure it will before touching it

it will return to your setting after few mins
 
sussex_cichlids said:
Hi mark

it well flow fast for the first few mins it just were the pressure has backed up mine dose the same for a few min after it comes on after about 5 min it settles to the right amount

set reg to 2/2.5 bar then with needle valve set to your required BPS (bubbles per sec) you shouldn't need to adjust it every day

set it up and leave it for for 20 mins see if it easy off im sure it will before touching it

it will return to your setting after few mins
Click to expand...


Thank you. When I looked today this was 20 minutes after start up. The pressure is set to 26psi or 2kg/cm². Not sure what this converts to in bar?
 
So could the problem be caused by the low pressure? I didn't realise it could be adjusted?

My mistake, guage is actually reading 30psi (didn't look properly divisions are 5's and not 1's)
 
Mark

Was the gas still going at a great rate of knots after 20 mins or had it slowed down as per the previous day's set up.

Regards
paul.
 
Are you initial setting the system up

you will find first few days that there is fluctuations till you can get the right presure between the main valve and needle valve settled

you got to keep tweaking the main presure till it sit at 2/2.5 bar over next few days if it wont already stay at 2/2.5 bar

Now with you needle valve keep reducing this one till you get stable BPS you want check it after 3/4 hours and adjust again if needed then wait 3/4 hours again and adjust again if needed

Then leave it 24 hrs before solenoid opens check the main presure first see if that still 2/2.5 bar if not open main valve till that's 2/2.5 bar again turn it on an wait a few mins till it settles if it dose not settle

Adjust the nedel valve till you get the corect BPS again keep doing that over next few days you should dial it all in eventually

s4a0av.jpg
 
I am new to high tech aquariums :text-imnewhere: but am a hydraulic engineer by trade and the problem you are describing is a typical "pressure surge" and it can be difficult to control.
With the solenoid open you are setting a flow rate (bubble rate) through the needle valve and the solenoid valve at a nominal pressure drop across the needle valve and solenoid. When the solenoid closes the flow from the bottle through the regulator and across the needle valve becomes zero but the pressure between the solenoid and the regulator will build up to the setting of the regulator (pressure). When the solenoid opens again some time later the pressure built up discharges ( high flow rate) uncontrolled across the needle valve until the original flow rate / pressure drop is achieved. How fast this happens depends on the quality of the needle valve and the regulator. In some cases the "new" high pressure forces the needle valve and /or regulator open and so the original setting is never achieved)
If your solenoid is placed any distance away from your needle valve the effect will be worse and the same applies if your needle valve is placed a distance away from the bottle regulator.
In the picture below all the valves and things are at a minimum distance from the regulator and so the resulting surge is much less (might not be noticeable). I guess you need to try to achieve the minimum distance between the needle / solenoid valves and the regulator.
You can try to balance the settings as described by sussex_cichlids but you should record some settings for yourself. ie so that you can see if the regulator is fluctuating or not when the gas is racing.
Hope this isnt confusing :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

Hope this helps

If you still struggle It may be that you have to only just crack the bottle tap before the regulator to reduce the flow from the bottle and let the regulator regulate the pressure at a lower flow.
Neil
 
Neil, thanks very much for taking the time to write that detailed explanation, it makes sense but not sure if it can be overcome?

Paul the regulator is a Sunwell. And I have now noticed that there is an increase in the regulator pressure when the solenoid switches off. Its running at 30psi and as you can see when off it jumps to 45psi. This would possibly account for the surprisingly high CO² usage (5kg in 16 days)



i-ZV4dmg6-L.jpg
 
Mark Webb said:
Its running at 30psi and as you can see when off it jumps to 45psi. This would possibly account for the surprisingly high CO² usage (5kg in 16 days)
Click to expand...

You shouldn't get a jump of presure on the bottle presure gauge that should only move once the bottle starts to empty and it will drop slowly for such a sudden change in pressure it could be regulator problem

if it was a leak or the length of pipe your using between the diffuser and bottle it would upset the the regulator presure gauge not the bottle presure gauge and that would drop slowly that's what got me thinking it could be regulator problem
 
Mark Webb said:
I have now noticed that there is an increase in the regulator pressure when the solenoid switches off. Its running at 30psi and as you can see when off it jumps to 45psi.
i-ZV4dmg6-L.jpg
Click to expand...


Mark

Switch off 45 psi = 3.38 bar & switch on 30 psi = 2.07 bar.

I think that the needle valve is trying or being used to control the high line pressure and it just cannot cope with that pressure so it virtually dumping the gas.

I would assume that the gauge on the left hand side of the reg. is bottle pressure, the top gauge is line pressure, when the solenoid switch off you will see the pressure increase and vice versa when the reg. open. I have checked my gauges (JBL Reg.) - my line pressure when switched off is approx. 1.50 bar or 22 psi and when switch on its showing about 0.80 bar or 12 psi - this equates to about 4 / 5 bps. Is the reg. adjustable ? if so I think you need to adjust the reg so the top gauge shows a line pressure of 25 psi / 1.75 bar or no greater than 30 psi / 2.07 bar when switched off and your final adjustment to obtained the bps adjust by using the needle valve.

Regards
paul.
 
if the one at the top is line pressure thats reading just under 50 psi which would be higher than working pressure. so I would assume top is bottle pressure and left is line pressure. which is miles too high for a line pressure (even worse if you look at the top)
 
Thanks guys.
The left hand guage is the bottle pressure and the top is line pressure. The only possible adjustment is the large chrome nut on top, but that doesn't look like it adjusts to me?
 
given those bottle readings I now suspect your regulator isnt regulating. The bottle pressure and regulated pressure are so close to being the same the gas is just being dumped when the solenoid opens.... as you are aware because the gas last no time.
Sounds like new regulator time and try to get an adjustable one
 
Grab a spanner to adjust the main valve turn that anti clockwise till its closed if it starts to rises turn the main valve clockwise till its closed

Now open the needle valve all the way and turn on solenoid to dump the gas in the line you should see the regulator/line presure start to drop wait till this reads 0 psi

Now close needle valve fully

Now you can turn the main valve clockwise till the regulator/line presure reads 35psi that's about 2.5 bar

now you got the presure regulated you can start to set the BPS you want you can use the instructions i posted early to dial the BPS in over next few days

35a6cqq.jpg
 
Thank you for this. There is a screw into the side just where your arrow is. I have tried it both ways but it is not changing the bottle pressure? If I undo the screw gas starts to escape from it. I dont think the large nut on top is an adjustment??

This is a new regulator, bought a year ago but not used until now.
 
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