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LED lighting

saw the same article myself today, was thinking about one a these over a 45cm cube...... may be interesting to pay a visit to them over the xmas break
 
Sorry for the slight necro, but as there are no other threads about these I wanted to chip in.

I have 2 Arcadia EcoAqua 30 watt spots over my new tank, and I really rate them. Tank is 70cm x 60cm x 66cm.

The only plastic on them is the lens and the clamping bracket. The lamp body is one big metal heatsink painted black. The clamp isn't perfect, but I am reliably informed that Arcadia are working on redesigning this. I am also reliably informed that the 2nd gen units will support dimming, and that they will be bringing out some form of computer/controller for them eventually also. My informant been a product manager with Arcadia. ;)

I didn't use the clamps though, the wooden surround on the top of my tank is too thick.

As you can pick these up for about £180 each if you shop arround, if you are looking to get LED lighting you wont regret these ones.

Ade
 
Morgan Freeman said:
I don't understand TGM's scepticism of LEDs when they stock all the ADA snake oil :/

Having tried a TMC 1000ND in the past, I can. They USED to have pretty poor depth penetration, and the early units were really yellow looking light wise. Given the shallow tanks they test on though, I'm surprised they couldn't make them work.

The white EcoAqua though still gives off a brighter looking light even thatn the newer 1000NDs.

Ade
 
I do not think that Arcadia LED they stock now is much better than TMC ND1000 except different color rendition. In fact could have a bit worst spread of light as all LED are concentrated in one spot while TMC has them better positioned.

I am also surprised they could not grow HC cuba one of easiest plant with TMC LED.

Arcadia has XPG 6500-8000 Kelvin TMC has XPE LED 6000-6500 Kelvin so that's why color difference but no PAR difference at same distance per LED and if you have DIY skills you can turn your Arcadia 30W in to 45-50W with custom PSU and some cooling FAN as XPG can go higher than they are using them now
 
Actually Radk, there IS a PAR difference, especially noticeable at depth.

As to spread, there's quite a big trade off. The TMC 1000ND could easily light a 60cm square, but had real problems with deep tanks. The Arcadia gets around this by more tightly clustering the diodes giving a narrower beam of light giving higher PAR at depth, but sacrificing spread to about 40cm square.

This isn't just number crunching on paper, or guess work. I actually own a 1000ND and 2 EcoAqua 30 watt spotlights.

You're also mistaken on colour temps, for the Arcadia at least. The white has 12 6,500k LEDs. You're confusing it with the marine white which does indeed also contain 8,000k diodes. So both manufacturers are claiming the same colour temps, and as I said the NEW 1000ND is a lot whiter than the old one (I've had both, having had my 1st unit replaced under warranty).

On an 18" deep or shallower tank, a TMC 1000ND will do a good job for sure, giving much better spread as well, meaning you can use less units. Once you hit the 2 feet mark though it's my experiene that the 1000ND quickly loses efficacy, whilst the EcoAqua seems to just be able to punch deeper. But then it is my understanding that Cree XP=G diodes are more powerful than XP-E LEDs anyway.... Good luck though finding any actual information about PAR at depth for the 1000ND.

This said, I am sure that in time TMC will improve the 1000ND further.

Oh, and sorry but a plastic brick is just not as attractive. The 1000ND is REALLY ugly.

I do however agree that it's hard to undertand why TGM wouldn't stock them. Given that their tests aren't even in deep aquariums. Plus my understanding is that a good nutritious substrate and column dosing are far more important for HC Cuba than lighting is...

I am NOT an Arcadia fan boy, in fact I have ripped into them many times in the past over the high price of their products. However as things stand I prefer the 30watt spot.

Ade
 
Wolfenrook said:
Oh, and sorry but a plastic brick is just not as attractive. The 1000ND is REALLY ugly.
Hi Ade,

I think it's a matter of personal taste.

Arcadia Eco-aqua LED 30w
30W_Led-Underside.jpg


TMC AquaRay 1000ND LED 30w
aquaray-grobeam-1000nd_zm__79697_zoom.jpg


I prefer the aesthetics of my 1000ND units over the vast majority of light units on the market. I really like the almost industrial/minimalist look; I even prefer it over something like the ADA Solar units. I think a lot depends on how they fit in with your set up as a whole and your living space. I don't think the Arcadia units would suit my situation so well; at least not to my taste.

6537883485_fe7042fe72_o.jpg
60cm shallow optiwhite - Day 8 by George Farmer, on Flickr

Another aspect I prefer to the TMC units are the power controllers and their ability to ramp up and ramp down the intensity using 1% increments to whatever setting you like, and for however long you like. Arcadia have yet to release any form of power controller, but understand they're coming soon.
 

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Indeed George, I've been talking to one of their product managers and he assured me that the 2nd gen will be dimmable, and that they will be releasing controllers. They've also gone back to the drawing board with the brackets.

I didn't actually use the bracket, as that part IS ugly, and really not very solid. Besides which, the clamp wasn't wide enough to fit on the wooden top. :lol:

DSCF3427-563-700-600-80.jpg


I rate the TMC 1000ND fairly highly as well myself, I'm running mine over a dart frog viv where I can't see the actual unit:-

DSCF3330-521-700-600-80.JPG


As you say, looks are entirely subjective, but I prefer the black metal heatsink look of the EcoAqua. I did however suggest to Arcadia that they bring it out in brushed metal as well, as not everybody likes black.

For me I'd say it's horses for coarses. Shallower tanks you get better bang for buck with the 1000ND. Deeper tanks though I feel benefit from the tighter beam of the EcoAqua.

I still have to really agree that I don't understand why TGM had such a problem with LED lighting before either. Plenty of people using them and getting really good growth in the same tanks as they are testing over. The ONLY thing I can think of is they relied too much on readings from a PAR meter.

Oh and yeah, that's an MMS rail my Arcadias are mounted on. :lol:

Ade
 
Of course there is PAR difference but I rather have nice spread than huge PAR at one spot and then all around blind sposts which Arcadia most likely deliver. Arcadia will deliver good PAR only with 60-90degree lens or what they supply anyway and then it is only good for some small cubes marine tanks. Their standard XPG are 125 degree spread and you will not get huger PAR extra even when you concentrate 12 LED at one spot. TMC has LED's with 115 Degree spread to compensate. There should be only slight difference. Also XPG has better efficiency so there it can gain extra PAR.

Any of these LED's are rip off anyway for big size tank you need something custom or your wallet will bleed given value of those individual LED in total is less than 30GBP and for manufacturer even less than that.
 
The White and Freshwater come with 120 degree lenses, you've added 5 degrees. ;)

The sweet spot with them is actually fairly wide, and 54 PAR at 55cm depth in this sweet spot isn't to be sneered at, 45 PAR slightly outside this dropping off 22 PAR at the edges. Not that bad at all really. That's with the 120 degree lens as well, NOT the 60 degree or 40 degree ones. Swapping the lens to say a 60 degree actually ramps the PAR up to 190 at 55cm in the 'sweet spot' and 79 just oustide this at the cost of the outer realms dropping off to 17 PAR. Given that it's only 22 PAR with the 120 degree lens, seems to me swapping them to 60 degree lenses isn't that big a sacrifice for a lot of gain.

There's a thing, the fact you can change the lenses on the Arcadia units. You can't do this with the TMC.

As to them only been any use over nanos and marine tanks, uhm I have them over a 66cm deep, 62 gallon freshwater aquarium, using the standard 120 degree lenses. The left hand lamp is a Freshwater, the right hand lamp a White.

LEDs like any 'new' tech has haters, and those who embrace the tech early on. I've embraced it. I've always used T5HO in the past, but looks wise the light just doesn't come close, to my eyes anyway.

Ade

PS. Can I ask a favour? If you are going to argue about PAR, please do provide some figures rather than just "opinion". Thanks muchly. :thumbup:
 
Wolfenrook I did not add any 5 degree that is XPG specification by default unless you can consider basic arcadia cover as lens.

I can not do you a favor as I do not have Arcadia so can't give proper PAR by measuring them but I made few custom LED lights with XPG LED and own TMC Grobeam with XPE as well so I am quite eligible for opinion I think.
Reading them from Arcadia leaflet would not make me look smarter. But I can compare on paper considering each LED characteristics.

I still think using any 60 or 40 degree lens will be useless for any tropical tank as PAR is too huge at one tight spot. Only good for marine where you need 300-500PAR. If you want to grow at this intensity then good luck keeping algae off. So we are back at basic spread 115 and 125 degree :)

One think I do not like on LED is that when just single led burns out you have to send back whole unit for repair as it happened to me week ago. They should try to make them interchangeable for this very reason. My TMC was only year old :(.
 
I don't mind the look of either light, both can look good depending on the type of aquarium used.

I'd love to get hold of some good LEDS like these but the price is too restrictive for me.
 
Personally I like the TMC units. George, I really like the look you have with your pair of tiles hanging over the tank. Nicely suspended too. I have seen the Arcadia ones, and for the money they just do not look worth it. The other thing, and this is purely personal, is that I thing a circular light over a rectangular aquarium looks odd. That will appeal to others of course. I can verify that the intensity of the Arcadia unit is fantastic though, having seen one set up at MA Hickstead less than a week ago. That is not to say the TMC ones are less than sufficient, as I am sure mr F would not use them if they were at all substandard ;)
 
Radik, I don't "consider" the "basic Arcadia cover as a lens", it IS a lens, just like the extra lenses TMC install over the LEDs in their fittings. But unlike the TMC units, you can change it. Yes you HAVE added 5 degrees on, as you clearly haven't even read the specifications for the actual unit and are going PURELY by the specs for the diodes. The "basic cover" as you call it is a 120 degree lens, it does what it says on the tin. It can be removed by undoing the small screws and replaced with one of the other optional lenses, to change it to either 60 degrees, or 40 degrees. If you have a particularly deep aquarium for example, you could simply swap to a 60 degree lens and use more units. Look do me a favour, just go look on the Arcadia site, they have actually PUBLISHED PAR figures etc for these. I'm not making them up, or taking dodgy reading myself. I am willing to bet George can access more figures as well from the tests at PFK.

As to the looks of the unit, I just have a personal preference for the metal construction of the Arcadia lamp, over the cheap plastic of the TMC. The shape isn't an issue, as fish aren't rectangular or square, nor are plants. ;) Plus I like round lights anyway. :thumbup:

Just to be clear here, I was discussing the Arcadia units as these are what the original post was asking about. If it had been asking about TMCs I would have posted info about my experience with these. I posted because I saw nobody else coming forward who was using Arcadia EcoAqua 30 watt spotlights over a planted tank.

Yes I get a little narked when some folks start arguing without posting ANY actual number etc to back up their argument. I got the same reaction back when I was an early uptaker of the TMC 1000ND. It just seems that some folks get seriously set in their ways about equipment and argue for the sake of it. I don't mind discussion over the design, it's just personal taste, but I do mind argument based on assumptions regarding actual performance. Especially if it's from somebody who hasn't actually TRIED both units in the real world. I know from experience than in a 72cm aquarium plants below the half way mark struggled to get enough light from my 1000ND, I even used flow pumps to rule out dead spots been the cause. You could even see it visually, with the bottom part of the tank looking shadowy and shaded. As to growing carpet plants in there, even echinodorus tenellus struggled. I can't say from experience that the Arcadia will perform better (even when I can, the fact I am using 2 will cast doubts), but the figures certainly suggest that it will.

Also, do keep in mind that these are still VERY new. The TMC 1000ND was plagued with problems early on, not least dodgy psus and faulty sealing gaskets. Heck mine let water in, I'm on my second PSU within 2 years, my 2nd tile in 2 years as the 1st one not only let water in bud an LED blew, and my 2nd controller as the 1st one packed up again within 2 years. On the plus side, TMC customer service was excellent, and they had a new tile and controller out to me within days of my sending them my old ones. The bracket on the Arcadia is poor, I've told this to an Arcadia product manager and was told they were working on redoing the bracket. The design is love or hate, same as the TMC. The current units don't dim, V2 will, etc. TMC 1000NDs are much better now than they were, I think we can expect the same from the Arcadia units.

There's no embed I can see for vids on here, but you folks might enjoy these vids. First one is from when I was running my 1000ND over my 72cm deep tank:-




Second one is of my new tank with the 2 Arcadias over it. I modified the filter outlet quite a bit since, but I'm considering taking it back to this. The extra shimmer was really nice, would just mean turning the CO2 up more:-




If you can't say anything else for Arcadia, at least they have been open and public with the figures for PAR etc. I still struggle to find similar figures from TMC.

Ade
 
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