"Dutch something or the other" 120 Gal

[viktorlantos]

Beauty colors Tom, i also kind of like the fact that you try so many different plants with it. Only from this tank itself you could write a study, how the plants form and shape under this condition.

Great journal

 

[plantbrain]

It has been a fun tank and I've been careful NOT to change too much, too fast. There is some structure and I've gotten a decent feel for it for this scape. You can also see the time line between changes, grow out time frames etc, different trim methods etc.

I've out of town for a few days, so after a week, I'll be interested to see what the tank will look like, I should get some pics up Monday or so.

 

[plantbrain]

Before I left for a week, the tank looked like this:

Well, had about 6-8" growth of many of the species after 1 week away.

45 min later after trimming:

Some of the Erios did not like less ferts this week and decided to flower.............supposedly the kiss of death for them.

FTS prior to trim:

Low grow red hygro is doing nice in the corner under low light.

Erio type 3 took off since I hacked everything else back good. Even have extra to sell.

I have not trimmed this plant yet, might wait another 3-4 days. This is after I trimmed everything else, then said furrrgetit, doing a water change(so the water is hazy here):

Took pics, then did a trim, took more pics, then a water change, then took pics again.

 

[faizal]

Sump is here:

Tom,...I am truly sorry to be asking very basic questions here but could you kindly explain how this whole set up works please? And where is your needle wheel pump situated in that picture?

 

[plantbrain]

Goes into the return pump.

 

[fandango]

Stunning pictures of always evolving tank! Very inspiring!!

 

[hinch]

when you trim the tall stems do you uproot trim and just replant the tips again or do you just hack the tops off?

reason I ask is I have some tall stems that are badly in need of trimming but I don't fancy uprooting them all as they've finally taken root enough to not be dug up by a plec but just chopping the tops will leave me with a few large leafs as opposed to the new tops which have lots of smaller leafs

 

[Westyggx]

Wow the colours in that tank are amazing!

 

[plantbrain]

when you trim the tall stems do you uproot trim and just replant the tips again or do you just hack the tops off?

reason I ask is I have some tall stems that are badly in need of trimming but I don't fancy uprooting them all as they've finally taken root enough to not be dug up by a plec but just chopping the tops will leave me with a few large leafs as opposed to the new tops which have lots of smaller leafs

You can try either method and maybe some mixes/hybrid methods for trimming, I basically use what works best with each species.

I'm not just growing, I'm trying to scape and assess which plants will be suited over the longer term. Some do not do well with topping alone, some do better uprooted and then replanted.

I often will trim say 1/4 of the tank once a week vs say 50-100%, but...sometimes I'm more motivated than other times. If I trim a lot, I also do more frequent water changes. Sometimes 2x a week 50%-60% etc.

 

[toadass]

Love it, great tank Tom. When a Dutch is done as well as this it's got to be the best style of scaping IMO.

 

[viktorlantos]

I start to think you're using plastic plants The whole tank looks like something from a tale or so
Just kidding. Never seen such a colorful tank before. I keep coming back to see what you do with this Tom.

Beauty garden

 

[plantbrain]

Well, it has become pretty gaudy looking with the wall of red plants, but time to get the contrast and color mix going more.

I need to trim the plants back BETTER the next 2-3 trims, this will give a nice slope through the "front to back" view.

It's very easy to see from the top of the tank view, but does not come out as nice if you look through the front panel directly head on.

Some of the trimming is higher or ratty because I'm still trying to fatten and fill in some species more.

I liked the other plant species I had prior that were in the rows like the Downoi because they stay short and are easier to trim in those locations.

I might move a few things around and see. In the Rear Right, I might let the P stellata grow out and maybe Ammannia if it looks good there, and maybe Neasea pedicillata. Something with a more yellow or purple color. Or perhaps Crypt usteriana. Lace plant perhaps also.

Lots of spots are "pesky", but I'm getting there spot by spot, little by little.

Good thing is it will teach me about a lot of new species I have not typically kept for many years or not at all(Ludwigia red, Erio setaceum type 3, H sibthorpides, Tonina lotus blossom etc).

So I'll have a library of contrast and a color schemes.


Toadass, this really is not a Dutch scape, hence my reluctance to name it as such. It has maybe several methods and styles from Dutch influence, but........ a little NA is added and it's not NA either. I'm not sure I could effectively do a correct Dutch scape. Never tried.

 

[gex23]

I have to say, this tank is absolutely incredible. The contrasting textures, colours, vibrancy and overall formal layout which accentuates the hard scape is inspirational

 

[plantbrain]

I'm looking at the tank pondering some more change and moves, I pulled the Ech vesuvius out to the side where the D diandra was and just kept a little of that in the background.

I trimmed some errant stems that were a tad too tall.

Shortened both Tonina.

I have several Bucephalandras coming in, but these will end up on the wood somewhere.
Still waiting on the Ammannia. I might use Nesaea also.

Still mulling over some changes that add better contrast, ease of care, more uniformity over the whole tank scape.
You'd think I'd be done with it by now

 

[plantbrain]

Made some changes, still gots more to do.
This is what it looks like after I trim and mid and background plants.

Ideally, the green plants in the far back would be 3-4" taller and then the rest of the R macrandra would be okay, then trim the color rows in the front down about 2" lower.

 

[Ady34]

Hi Plantbrain,
this tank looks beautiful.
It must be great to grow plants so well that it acts like a plant nursery, which in effect will make the tank more than pay for itself!
A few Q's if you dont mind,
Is that an ATI Sunpower dimmable light unit you have? If so have you found it agreeable and would you recommend them... clearly your plants are thriving, so its doing the job! Do you find the dimmer useful in plant growing or is it more for a more natural morning/evening transition to/from full lighting. Ive been looking at the non dimmable option and am interested as to your thoughts on the usefulness of the dimmer. What sort of bulbs are you using also?
The wood hardscaping is fantastic and its nice to also see a more formally planted scape amidst so many more 'nature' orientated tanks on the forum.
Cheerio,
Ady.

 

[plantbrain]

Is that an ATI Sunpower dimmable light unit you have?

Yes

Do you find the dimmer useful in plant growing or is it more for a more natural morning/evening transition to/from full lighting. Ive been looking at the non dimmable option and am interested as to your thoughts on the usefulness of the dimmer. What sort of bulbs are you using also?
The wood hardscaping is fantastic and its nice to also see a more formally planted scape amidst so many more 'nature' orientated tanks on the forum.
Cheerio,
Ady.

I'm not sure that the dimmer adds any real difference in growth vs not...........but..........the CO2 takes about 20-40 minutes to ramp up........and the light follows this same vector. The CO2 goes off about 20 minutes before the lights are 100% off. Same thing there.

Unlike a manual dimmer, this will automatically slow and progressively dim/brighten any of the 2 channels, this makes the unit much more useful. The controller is rather easy once you figure it out initially.

I have a host of bulb brands and color types, I'm still experimenting with color combos. There is a reflectance aspect to this also, since I view the bulb reflection off the water itself. The colors reflect and make the leaves look different also. Red plant bulbs will make the leaves look more red. Too much red and the tank looks freaky. Too little, not much red color. Same with the Blue(real nice for fish though), purple/violet, various white bubs, Green bulbs and daylight and mixes of these.

Coralife colormax
ATI blue special/purple
URI Red Sun(Extremely red)
Wavepoint: reef sun, daylight, purple
Ge starcoat (Nice crisper midday bul, 6500K
Zoo med plant and then their 10,000K type of bulb
Giesemann powerchrome midday and then the aquafloras
SPS daylight
Spectralux green, daylight and red
There's a few others I have, but those are the main bulbs.

Dimmers are okay where you CANNOT raise or lower the hood to reduce or increase intensity.
Another good reason/application: You want the same spread of light, just not all that intensity.

Example: this tank above is over 75cm front to back depth..........you'd need either a light with lots of bulbs or two separate fixtures. Well, say your goal is a lower intensity, but you want low light over a wide region? Or perhaps you want the color choices with mixing 4-8 different bulbs vs say 2.

Hummph, I guess there are a lot more uses for manual dimmers than I though, but those same things can be done with the dim controller. The dim controller really makes the light much nicer than anything in the USA markets for aquariums.

 

[Ady34]

Thanks for the informative reply,

Dimmers are okay where you CANNOT raise or lower the hood to reduce or increase intensity.
Another good reason/application: You want the same spread of light, just not all that intensity.

Example: this tank above is over 75cm front to back depth..........you'd need either a light with lots of bulbs or two separate fixtures. Well, say your goal is a lower intensity, but you want low light over a wide region? Or perhaps you want the color choices with mixing 4-8 different bulbs vs say 2.

I can certainly see the value in this respect, the wider the tank the wider the light spread needed but as you say not necessarily the intensity, so a dimming option is good to manage light. Also the more bulbs, the more colour options.
I know Mark Evans uses a giesemann light unit and has noted the quality of the reflectors in spreading light correctly. Do you feel the reflectors in this unit offer any advantages, it looks like in the first image in your latest update that the light is concentrated/directed very well, reducing 'glare' issues, especially with the unit raised higher from the water surface.
Im currently only using 2 t5 ho lights in a single hagen glo unit over my tank but am finding the light spread to be poor. I started looking into adding another glo unit alongside my existing one to achieve a more even spread, but then was concerned about the intensity. I suppose this is where the dimmable units are favourable.
Ill maybe research light intensity drop off a little further to see if its feasable to simply raise my current light unit to get more 'spread' across the width of the tank without loosing too much depth.
Thanks,
Ady.

 

[plantbrain]

I can certainly see the value in this respect, the wider the tank the wider the light spread needed but as you say not necessarily the intensity, so a dimming option is good to manage light. Also the more bulbs, the more colour options.
I know Mark Evans uses a giesemann light unit and has noted the quality of the reflectors in spreading light correctly. Do you feel the reflectors in this unit offer any advantages, it looks like in the first image in your latest update that the light is concentrated/directed very well, reducing 'glare' issues, especially with the unit raised higher from the water surface.
Im currently only using 2 t5 ho lights in a single hagen glo unit over my tank but am finding the light spread to be poor. I started looking into adding another glo unit alongside my existing one to achieve a more even spread, but then was concerned about the intensity. I suppose this is where the dimmable units are favourable.
Ill maybe research light intensity drop off a little further to see if its feasable to simply raise my current light unit to get more 'spread' across the width of the tank without loosing too much depth.
Thanks,
Ady.

I use to be a fan of Giesemann bulbs, I have always liked their fixtures, but they are not common over here, mostly the HQI's etc. ATI has a well established niche in the USA marine cult. The ATI fixture is great compared to the Tek, which is well rates also, but the ATI frankly stomps the piss out of those.

ATI bulbs are nice, but they do not offer a red/pink type of plant bulb, but the Giesemann aqua floras are nice, so are the Zoomed 5000K plant bulb, and some other brands. For standard white daylight, the GE starcoats are hard to beat and 1/2 the cost.

In your case, the 2 light fixtures might be better, depends on how much $ you want to waste on the hobby and the look etc. Some people are cheap and some buy ADA, I'm in between.

The deal with the added lighting: simply have 1 fixture on at any one time, maybe 30 min overlap if you wish, then have the other light go off. This will give you ample spread, without any difference in intensity. Also save on the electric bill.

So say run 1 of the lights for 4 hours and then the other comes on and runs for another 4 hours.

 

[Ady34]

In your case, the 2 light fixtures might be better, depends on how much $ you want to waste on the hobby and the look etc. Some people are cheap and some buy ADA, I'm in between.

The deal with the added lighting: simply have 1 fixture on at any one time, maybe 30 min overlap if you wish, then have the other light go off. This will give you ample spread, without any difference in intensity. Also save on the electric bill.

So say run 1 of the lights for 4 hours and then the other comes on and runs for another 4 hours.

Thanks for the advice, its much appreciated. However ive done some more research and have decided, as a bit of a beginner, for now to stick with just the single glo unit i have. Im getting decent results, and still feel i need to concentrate on improving c02 and fert regimes first. Once i have these skills, ill maybe think about more light, but would definitely only buy one of the more versatile and controllable lighting units such as the ATI which is well priced for the spec.
Thanks again for the advice its much appreciated.
Cheerio,
Ady.