"Dutch something or the other" 120 Gal

[plantbrain]

Wise move Ady, still........you'd be okay as long as the 2 lights do not over lap........being both on at the same time.
Since you are not adding more light, just spreading it out.

Another manual way to to simply slide the hood back midway through the light period.
Even if it's only 1 hour at the end of the day, this will have a significant effect.

ATI lighting is nice, but it is for the more hardcore plantie.

 

[plantbrain]

I uprooted all the Erios and the Tonia Lotus blossom, all the other Tonina, all the pantanal, all the D diandra, some of the other groups also.

So I did a lot of work on the tank actually, so it's pretty clear less than 1 hour later. If someone think they can do all that and make it clear with ADA AS, I'd like to see them try:thumbsup:

I raised the Pellia up and it is on the Left side in front of the Ech augustifolia. "vesuvius".
I need to figure out how to better manage the R macrandra or reduce the stand. I'll need to figure out a better location for the R wallichii I think. Hydrothrix grows well in the back but parts melt due to a lack of light after a lot of growth starts to block the light.


The Erios on the right side and Tonina lotus blossom are much better now.
I think I've produced 3x more Tonina lotus blossom vs the normal type, which I've only managed to double over nearly 2x longer time.
So Tonina lotus blossom is a better plant for cultivation and sales. I have nearly 50 stems/shoots now. About 40 for the Pantanal.

I'm also thinking about doing something different with the Downoi and putting Elatine triandra like I had the Gloss before.
But I need a good home for the Downoi before I go that direction.

 

[faizal]

That's looking lovely . Tom,..I'm sure you would have had people asking this question up to no end but,.."Do red colored plants need more light to do well. I keep hearing people saying that the red coloured plants have less chlorophyll therefore they require higher lighting intensities ( and hence better co2 management) to do well . What PAR levels would you advocate for colored plants please?

 

[plantbrain]

If they have less chl, they simply grow slower, the lower Chl is not a requirement for higher light, if you look at most red plants that are ornamental, they are low light. Desert plants are mostly green, there is not one single red plant in the Mojave, the Sonoran, or the Colorado desert. They are all green or white due to hairly trichromes.

Note, this tank was using about 1/4 the light I have on it now. The difference is mostly the plants grow much faster.
I also am using different bulbs, which make the plants appear redder to the eye.

There is no trick to red plants, if you can grow green plants very well, the same should apply to red plants.
Red plants actually do not have a slower rate of growth(aquatics anyway) than green plants, they simply have more Red pigment is all which mask the green.

BBA is red also, but the black colored pigments mask the red color.
These pigments can still direct light and absorb.

I'd not try and assume there is some magic trick to red plants.
It is a tragic search of failure. Just focus on good over all care and plant growth.

40-50 umol does the trick for most plants, some really thrive at higher levels, but all shoud grow at 50umol.
The higher the light, the more CO2 demand and the more trouble dosign and trimmign becomes, and if you neglect things, the tank will get algae or the plants will look very poor very quick, at lower light, this is much easier to manage.

I get away with this tank by reducing the intensity and only run full power for about 4 hours.

I treat red plants the exact same way I do green ones.
Always have.

 

[Radik]

Why is your tank always cloudy? Do you do photos after u mess up with it or just Amazonia taking piss?

 

[faizal]

Thank you , Tom. That was something i had always wanted know. Tom,..another question please & i am sorry if this is off topic but what is your opinion on the siesta period? I keep hearing that it helps the plants to "fool" algae & also helps prevent the depletion of co2 in a NON CO2 set up.

Does it really work? Or will 6 continious hours of low PAR lighting intensity such as 20 at substrate & 40 at water surface ( during a new tank's start up phase) be equally effective considering of course all the other parameters are well managed sensibly?

 

[plantbrain]

Why is your tank always cloudy? Do you do photos after u mess up with it or just Amazonia taking piss?

Because 20 minute ago I pulled up a huge amount on plant biomass and roots that had not been moved for about 6 months

The water is quite clean relative to where it was prior

I can post pics tomorrow and you will see the tank is much clearer.

I typically take pics right after I mess with the tank. Sometimes right before as the case last week with all the over growth.

There, you can see just how clear the water is.

 

[plantbrain]

Thank you , Tom. That was something i had always wanted know. Tom,..another question please & i am sorry if this is off topic but what is your opinion on the siesta period? I keep hearing that it helps the plants to "fool" algae & also helps prevent the depletion of co2 in a NON CO2 set up.

Does it really work? Or will 6 continious hours of low PAR lighting intensity such as 20 at substrate & 40 at water surface ( during a new tank's start up phase) be equally effective considering of course all the other parameters are well managed sensibly?

Siesta might offer a little help in a non CO2 system for plant growth, but it does little for algae.
It does nothing for CO2 enriched tanks unless you already had issues and poor CO2 enrichment.

I think you are running the light too low, 30-40 is decent at the bottom, the top could be much higher or just a little more depending on the tank's height and distances from the bulbs.

 

[Radik]

Yes please I do not remember crystal clear picture seen in this thread so do me a favor Tom thanks

 

[plantbrain]

Yes please I do not remember crystal clear picture seen in this thread so do me a favor Tom thanks

Last set of pics.........

 

[roadmaster]

I am sorry,I cannot look anymore at photos in this thread, for it makes me want to yank all my plant's out of low tech tank that's been doing well and is jungle like ,and start over
Hmm, I have a 20 gal sitting empty,,perhaps I shall attempt such a beautimous tank, and at same time,,purge myself of the mass of info accumulated here and apply it, before my punkin size head explodes from the inertia exhibited by myself thus far. :text-coolphotos:

 

[Radik]

Thanks Tom , second one is very clear did you play with some color saturation on it?

 

[alzak]

Can someone told me what kind of plants they are in red circles ??

 

[Radik]

bottom is Ashy pipewort Eriocaulon cinereum.. very difficult and requires low KH a one of very few plants. Even emersed growth in Asia can be problem when conditions are not right during year I heard.

top is Tonina fluviatilis same category as above. and right one is Eriocaulon Setaceum I think also same category as above.

 

[sWozzAres]

The tank seems very artificial in that every type of plant has a dedicated area with little or no overlap which is emphasized by the contrasting colour/texture and gives the impression that the plants are plastic. It's also infested with shrimp!

I don't want to come across as a git, but that is the overwhelming impression I get when I see the pictures. Perhaps my aquascape compass is pointing in the wrong direction.

Still, I have to say that individually, the plants look amazing

 

[plantbrain]

Thanks Tom , second one is very clear did you play with some color saturation on it?

I use gamma reduction to take off the high light wash out, this clears up some of the haze. Some sharpening. Not much else. The bulbs I use reflect red and blue real well, but not green as much. I have some green bulbs I have not yet tried. The color reflectance is also different from above than in the tank at a 90 degree angle. Tops of the leaves are more red in general.

 

[plantbrain]

bottom is Ashy pipewort Eriocaulon cinereum.. very difficult and requires low KH a one of very few plants. Even emersed growth in Asia can be problem when conditions are not right during year I heard.

top is Tonina fluviatilis same category as above. and right one is Eriocaulon Setaceum I think also same category as above.

Yes, except the part where those plants are hard, they are quite easy in this tank.
Erios would do well in my 180, but not the E setaceum and the Tonina. They seem to like shallow tanks and more lighting.

 

[plantbrain]

The tank seems very artificial in that every type of plant has a dedicated area with little or no overlap which is emphasized by the contrasting colour/texture and gives the impression that the plants are plastic. It's also infested with shrimp!

I don't want to come across as a git, but that is the overwhelming impression I get when I see the pictures. Perhaps my aquascape compass is pointing in the wrong direction.

Still, I have to say that individually, the plants look amazing

Well, the fact is, it is artificial.

It's not a nature aquarium.

Dutch style is not about making it look natural. It focuses on ordered groups, contrast and divisions between the groups etc. It is a harder method than nature style as far as the plants and their specific growth, which the hobbyists is often focused on, if hardscaping is more interesting, then Nature style will appeal more. If you like plant species and color/contrast, then a Dutch style might appeal more. This tank uses mostly dutch style, but it is not quite a dutch style tank either, it would do poorly in NBAT contest. I'm not sure what to call it.

 

[George Farmer]

This is an incredible display.

It may not suit some tastes. Maybe too formal for many. However, it's probably the finest display of healthy aquarium plant growth anyone is likely to see on here.

I actually like the relatively rigid layout - sure it's at odds with the Nature Aquarium concept but it's nice to see a refreshing and rather unique style like this. The journal title is certainly accurate in its description...

It's like it's forcing you to notice each species; their colours and textures provide maximum impact and visual feast to suppress anyone's appetite. Almost like a freshwater equivalent to a reef.

I wish I had the time to maintain something like this!

Kudos to you, Mr Barr.

I'm having some aquascaping-enthusiast friends over this weekend and I'm hoping to run a video podcast. Would you mind if this aquascape was one of the topics we discuss?

 

[plantbrain]

This is an incredible display.

It may not suit some tastes. Maybe too formal for many. However, it's probably the finest display of healthy aquarium plant growth anyone is likely to see on here.

I actually like the relatively rigid layout - sure it's at odds with the Nature Aquarium concept but it's nice to see a refreshing and rather unique style like this. The journal title is certainly accurate in its description...

It's like it's forcing you to notice each species; their colours and textures provide maximum impact and visual feast to suppress anyone's appetite. Almost like a freshwater equivalent to a reef.

I wish I had the time to maintain something like this!

Kudos to you, Mr Barr.

I'm having some aquascaping-enthusiast friends over this weekend and I'm hoping to run a video podcast. Would you mind if this aquascape was one of the topics we discuss?

Surprisingly, it really does not take that long to care for. And I mess with it a lot as you can tell. But I do not make large changes rapidly, slow and steady pace.........wins the race. I wait 2-3 weeks rather than trying to redo everything. Too much disturbance I think gets many aquarist into trouble. I also do use high light now, but I only did so with baby steps to make sure everything was good and then.......take the next step.

It might take me 10-20 min of time to trim the rows most weeks. The back ground, maybe 20 min.
I spend more time culling the lower grade Fire shrimp than I do trimming.

One might call the Dutch style a controlled collectoritus approach, but some Dutch tanks do strive for natural appearances also and they get more points for that.

I finally got my Ammannia gracilus and I think I'll move the Ludwigia peruinesis and replace with the Ammannia.
It's got a nicer coloration that is different from the Rotala and Ludwigia.

The other nice thing is the eclectic array of species in this display.
I've not seen anyone scape with Erio setacuem except one tank locally, and never with the Type 3, very few with Tonia(maybe 3-5 tanks), none with Ludwigia red(but that's going to change) and Erio cinereum use in scaping is extremely limited, then add the R macrandra, L pantanal, UG etc.........S belem/manuas/urupese I'd considered by plant of folks scape with those......so Erio type 3 was a nice replacement for giant Ambulia which is more common and very ordered plant as well.

The tank is also nice as a rotating species collection, allowing me to sample and compare/contrast many species.
Nature style is a very poor method for doing that. Still, in the back ground of many Nature style, you can mix and match and try various stem species out also, but those backgrounds are much more Dutch, than they are nature style.
So there's cross over in both styles.