HC... what a pain

[Antipofish]

Great thanks guys, thats the route I will take for now then. OMEN, sorry for slightly hijacking your thread, but hope the info is relevant to you too.

 

[Mark Evans]

Do you think just putting decent tubes and reflectors would be all I need to get the aesthetic appearance I want (better illumination) whilst also providing good enough light ?

Certainly add the reflectors.

I'd always suggest raising any light fitting.

This is a crop of my 90cm. The 150w MH is 100cm away from the substrate (pretty damn far) and there's been no issues with HC growth. This has not been trimmed neither.


90cm-crop by saintly's pics, on Flickr

If your lighting unit is 'fixed' in terms of all lights coming on at once, then physically raise the unit.

 

[Radik]

Hey Antipo I just did some PAR measures for 4x24W 60cm. This is all pond solution light

2x 24W Daylight tubes on sides of fixture - PAR on substrate front 65-70, middle 110
2x 24W Daylight tubes in middle of fixture - PAR on substrate front 100, middle 110

So it seems reflectors do a lot I thought having 2 tubes more aside would do better spread but looking at the measures if they are close to each other they do better spread across substrate.

Now some different Tube GROLUX to my surprise.

2x 24W Grolux tubes on sides of fixture - PAR on substrate front 32-33, middle 55
2x 24W Grolux tubes in middle of fixture - PAR on substrate front 40-45, middle 55

So if you have grolux tubes try to switch to these before lifting up light if that would mean additional cost to you. I am going to try it from now on and see how plants will grow. I have issues with pinnifitada due too much light so it may solve it now.

 

[Antipofish]

Hey Antipo I just did some PAR measures for 4x24W 60cm. This is all pond solution light

2x 24W Daylight tubes on sides of fixture - PAR on substrate front 65-70, middle 110
2x 24W Daylight tubes in middle of fixture - PAR on substrate front 100, middle 110

So it seems reflectors do a lot I thought having 2 tubes more aside would do better spread but looking at the measures if they are close to each other they do better spread across substrate.

Now some different Tube GROLUX to my surprise.

2x 24W Grolux tubes on sides of fixture - PAR on substrate front 32-33, middle 55
2x 24W Grolux tubes in middle of fixture - PAR on substrate front 40-45, middle 55

So if you have grolux tubes try to switch to these before lifting up light if that would mean additional cost to you. I am going to try it from now on and see how plants will grow. I have issues with pinnifitada due too much light so it may solve it now.

Thanks Radik. Wish I had a PAR meter, lol. My tubes are situated horizontally either side of the light unit which rests in the middle of the tank lid and then has a front and back flap for access (pic of my tank on first page of my journal on my signature link). The underside of these flaps is white and is SUPPOSED to be reflective according to the blurb. But I do not see it myself. I have been contemplating changing these bulbs for ones I saw in James's The Planted Tank post on lighting. The ones I saw on there give a better light spectrum for my taste. They are a mix of Osram Lumilux 880 Skywhite + Osram Lumilux 840 OR just the Phillips Deluxe pro 865 on its own.

I can get them first. And then if need be add reflectors too. Or might I just as well change the bulbs and get the reflectors anyway ?

 

[omen]

Wow, great to see such a response! Sorry I haven't been on earlier, I work in IT, and am on night shift all week...

Just to clarify for everyone, I rescaped and put the new light on about 6 weeks ago.
My lighting scheme has been:

Weeks 1-2: 6.5hrs 2x24w with 2hr in the middle with 4x24w
Weeks 3-4: 7.5hrs 2x24w with 4hr 4x24w mid lightnig period
Week 5 to now: 4x24w for 8hr period

Lighting was reviewed on a weekly period and slightly adjusted towards the new schedule.

Last week I changed my FE, and noticed tonight before leaving for work I have a bit of BBA, and staghorn on the edges of my trident ferns.

The HC, does pearl slightly near the end of the lighting period. Also, may be worth noting that I use the Tobi ferts mix of Calcium Nitrate, Potassium Nitrate, and Mg Nitrate. No P04 is added.

 

[Ady34]

Hi Omen, great to see you back on your thread!
Id def say it is a c02/lighting issue.
If the algae is taking grip, re staghorn and bba, this is a sure sign of c02 issues, and this in conjunction with pearling late on in the photoperiod suggests not enough c02 at the beginning when its needed most. As you have already stated your dc is lime green throughout, id reduce the lighting down to 2 tubes (to reduce the extra demand put on the plants for c02 uptake) and leave the c02 as is and see how you fare.
Cheerio,
Ady.

 

[omen]

The algae I believe was due to the last FE near running out. And caused by the fluctuation over a couple of days period. So you reckon reduce the lighting intensity, rather than perhaps turning the c02 on 2hrs before lights on? If the consensus is to reduce lighting, I can perhaps reduce it to 2x24w with 4hr mid 4x24w?

Any thoughts on adding p04? Before moving to the Tobi ferts, I did standard EI, and found the Tobi ferts to provide much better colours and growth, however it is a nitrates based fert.

 

[Ady34]

Ahh, yeah fluctuating c02 can cause algae problems and yes you could try adding c02 earlier to achieve higher levels, maybe pushing the dc into the yellow.... livestock dependant of course. Personally i do feel that 4x24w is a lot of light and perhaps unnecessary, so if it were me id lower it to 2x24w and maybe add 2hrs mid burst?...if you feel it necessary. As regards p04 im not clued up, ceg referred to this earlier but he or someone else in the know will have to answer this.
Cheerio,
Ady.

 

[Antipofish]

Ahh, yeah fluctuating c02 can cause algae problems and yes you could try adding c02 earlier to achieve higher levels, maybe pushing the dc into the yellow.... livestock dependant of course. Personally i do feel that 4x24w is a lot of light and perhaps unnecessary, so if it were me id lower it to 2x24w and maybe add 2hrs mid burst?...if you feel it necessary. As regards p04 im not clued up, ceg referred to this earlier but he or someone else in the know will have to answer this.
Cheerio,
Ady.

If I remember rightly this is a 100L tank ? That is 22gals and therefore 96w/22gall = 4.3wpg Yip that is pretty darn high compared to mine which is 48w/38.5gal = 1.25wpg and people are recommending ME not to add light !

 

[Mark Evans]

Wow, so much emphasise on lighting.

If we are to compare watts per gallon, I've grown HC with 1.1w per gallon, And that's with the lights real high. So maybe even lower watt per gallon ratio.

 

[Mark Evans]

The HC, does pearl slightly near the end of the lighting period. Also, may be worth noting that I use the Tobi ferts mix of Calcium Nitrate, Potassium Nitrate, and Mg Nitrate. No P04 is added.

With lower CO2, my HC didn't pearl, but with added co2 (same lighting) my HC started to pearl early in the photo period. Just using TPN+

The next trim will 'flatten' the HC and create compact growth, rather than this 'loose' looking HC.


HC by saintly's pics, on Flickr

 

[omen]

Certain areas of my HC continually end up on the surface of the tank, will the roots attach themselves to the substrate like many other plants? Also is it an idea to plant the HC 5-10mm below the substrate? When I planted, I left all leaves exposed, and put a few grains of substrate over to try and weight it down somewhat. I've noticed that groups planted near the front of the tank, which receive downwards flow from the spraybar output along the front glass have stayed in place, but all other areas that are receiving lateral flow, mid and back planting tend to uproot themselves. On the c02 front, I am pumping it in like nobodies business! Is it an idea to perhaps up my ferts? Previously I had an E Tenellus carpet, however is HC considered more of a nutrient hog? Does it gain most of its nutrients from the water column or root feeding?

Sorry for all the questions, and I am flattered by the amazing feedback this post has received. Thanks guys!

 

[Radik]

May I add my HC cuba bits?

This is after 25days. Planted 2cm aside in group of 3 stems. Lighting was 2x24w daylight 6hour a day. You can notice it is going upwards a bit so I am increasing co2 and I hope after trim it flattens. Also now for test I am using grolux tubes from yesterday which are giving less PAR so will see how it will change in 2 weeks time.

Before when I was growing HC cuba it was flattening from the beginning but I had much less light.


HC Cuba by Radik2, on Flickr

 

[Antipofish]

The HC, does pearl slightly near the end of the lighting period. Also, may be worth noting that I use the Tobi ferts mix of Calcium Nitrate, Potassium Nitrate, and Mg Nitrate. No P04 is added.

With lower CO2, my HC didn't pearl, but with added co2 (same lighting) my HC started to pearl early in the photo period. Just using TPN+

The next trim will 'flatten' the HC and create compact growth, rather than this 'loose' looking HC.


HC by saintly's pics, on Flickr

Stunning ! You have inspired me to try a HC carpet now.

 

[ceg4048]

This is after 25days. Planted 2cm aside in group of 3 stems. Lighting was 2x24w daylight 6hour a day. You can notice it is going upwards a bit so I am increasing co2 and I hope after trim it flattens. Also now for test I am using grolux tubes from yesterday which are giving less PAR so will see how it will change in 2 weeks time.

Before when I was growing HC cuba it was flattening from the beginning but I had much less light.

Radik,
The problem in this tank is flow/distribution where you HC is. You can prune and the new leaves might come in horizontally, but if they don't then you know you have a flow issue at that particular location. See post number 2 of the thread http://ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=12101

In your other tank, regardless of the lighting level you would have had better flow at the location where the HC was.

Wow Mark, that photo is velvety smooth mate.

Cheers,

 

[Radik]

Yes flow could be problem I have lily pipe positioned from left to right at the front of the tank so most flow going to the back of the tank. In early case I had just pipe from back to front beaming flow to the front glass. So yes you are right it could be flow issue.

 

[Mark Evans]

Thanks Clive. Still needs a brutal trim.

A side shot of the 90cm tank...(not really relevant) You cant see in this image, but the stems @ the back are pearling their ass off.

Actually, I'll be doing a thread on 'red stems' with a few things I've discovered recently.


Tropica-90-side by saintly's pics, on Flickr

Radik. It really shouldnt matter what lighting your using. Cetrtainly not tubes anyway. It is vital however, to get the co2 enriched water down to substrate level. You'll see a whole new beast then.

tunning ! You have inspired me to try a HC carpet now.

Thats it mate. Dive right in There's plenty of help on here for when you re-attempt to grow it.

 

[Radik]

Yes thanks for advice, ordered Koralia Nano as my 900lph filter in 80L tank is certainly not enough. Will post success or failure later

 

[Antipofish]

tunning ! You have inspired me to try a HC carpet now.

Thats it mate. Dive right in There's plenty of help on here for when you re-attempt to grow it.

What does "re attempt to grow it mean" does it die at first ?

 

[Westyggx]

I assume mark thinks you have already tried a hc carpet mate