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Lighting Advice Needed

Yet another update: removed a white particle from the filter and it has no smell to it so it may well be calcium carbonate as mentioned by NatureBoy.

Do I perform a blackout to get rid of this? I don't want to lower the light levels to resolve this as some of the plants I have just lose their colour and become brittle under lower light condition; that is no fun to watch.

Does anybody know where I could send a sample of the white particles for testing for a positive ID?


Thanks again,

Mark.
 
Hi Mark
You don't need to do a black out...these white particles are probably a harmless bacteria.
Just keep your filter cleaner...next time you do a water change the white particles shouldn't appear.
hoggie
 
hogan53 said:
Hi Mark
You don't need to do a black out...these white particles are probably a harmless bacteria.
Just keep your filter cleaner...next time you do a water change the white particles shouldn't appear.
hoggie
Click to expand...

I initially thought it was a bacteria but what do you think to Byron's explanation in this thread: http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/aqua ... tion-66627 ?

He found within a book that hydrogen carbonate (found in bicarbonates) is an intermediate form of carbonic acid and which is in higher concentrations in hard alkaline water. He goes on to say that plants can obtain carbon from co2 or bicarbonates. Where the plant fails to uptake co2, Byron states that the plant attempts to grab bicarbonates in the water column by excreting acid on the leaf's underside to generate a low PH of around 6.0; this acidity converts any bicarbonate to co2 which diffuses into the leaf for photosynthetic purposes. He goes on to state that the plant must maintain it's "internal charge balance" by taking up "acid produced on the leaf surface, resulting in a high localised PH of around 10 and a high hydroxide (OH-) concentration.

LASTLY, he stipulates that it is this high hydroxide concentration, when combined with any present calcium bicarbonate [Ca(HCO3)2] in the water column that causes a precipitation of calcium carbonate (CaCO3) (those white particles that we've been discussing).

He doesn't state that insufficient CO2 and high light = the necessity for a plant to obtain co2 from bicarbonates, BUT other posters within that article on tropicalfishkeeping.com have said that more co2 OR less light seems to get rid of the calcium carbonate deposits.

The person who suggested upping the Co2 and O2 in my aquarium seemed to be spot on.
 
Good scientific explanation, so are you keeping the co2 high and seeing where it goes?
Glad to see my suspicions were on the money. :p
 
Garuf said:
Good scientific explanation, so are you keeping the co2 high and seeing where it goes?
Glad to see my suspicions were on the money. :p
Click to expand...

Well, I've upped my Co2 injection rate to about 4 bubbles per second. I also managed to induce more water rippling to drive me o2 into the tank by not filling the aquarium up so much. As a result the water's surface is closer to the output flow of the outlet pipe.

Despite making these changes the German Blue Ram is yawning and not eating; this kind of behaviour is not seen before co2 injection starts or even 1 hour into co2 injection. The rest of the fish are eating and acting no differently!

Would I be right in thinking that GBR's are not suitable in some set-ups?

I've seen footage of GBR's in Venezuela river basins and they seem to enjoy swimming in water that receives light that is filtered by tree leaves. You certainly don't see them swimming in high-light, co2 injected water.
 
hogan53 said:
Hi Mark
You don't need to do a black out...these white particles are probably a harmless bacteria.
Just keep your filter cleaner...next time you do a water change the white particles shouldn't appear.
hoggie
Click to expand...
Have a look here :arrow: http://forum.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk ... 86583.html
:arrow: http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forum ... 18789.html

Quote(squint03-27-2010, 11:44 AM
some algae or bacteria film.
I also think it's biofilm that loses adherence after the flow of water has been absent for awhile.
It's not anything that wasn't already in your water and if it's dead algae or bacteria, it's not enough to cause an ammonia spike or anything.
I've seen it for years and nothing bad has ever happened.)

I still say its been down too the cleaning routine not being performed properly.
Seems the above aquarists have had a similar experiences..a good tip put a fine mesh net with some fine filter floss over the outlet next time you fire up the filter.
Try it and see do a 50% water change...your Ram may need it due to upping the Co2 injection rate.
hoggie
 
hogan53 said:
hogan53 said:
Hi Mark
You don't need to do a black out...these white particles are probably a harmless bacteria.
Just keep your filter cleaner...next time you do a water change the white particles shouldn't appear.
hoggie
Click to expand...
Have a look here :arrow: http://forum.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk ... 86583.html
:arrow: http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forum ... 18789.html

Quote(squint03-27-2010, 11:44 AM
some algae or bacteria film.
I also think it's biofilm that loses adherence after the flow of water has been absent for awhile.
It's not anything that wasn't already in your water and if it's dead algae or bacteria, it's not enough to cause an ammonia spike or anything.
I've seen it for years and nothing bad has ever happened.)

I still say its been down too the cleaning routine not being performed properly.
Seems the above aquarists have had a similar experiences..a good tip put a fine mesh net with some fine filter floss over the outlet next time you fire up the filter.
Try it and see do a 50% water change...your Ram may need it due to upping the Co2 injection rate.
hoggie
Click to expand...

How do I get a fine mesh net and fine filter floss to stay over the outlet pipe without just getting blown off? I think the end of the outlet pipe (on outside of filter box) clips on to the pipe so I guess I could put a fine mesh net on the end of the pipe and then clip the end back over it?

Here's the filter >
0180001673.jpg
(the black thing stuck out to the left is clipped on and is removable).
 
Personally I just wedge my fish catching net over the filter pipe into the tank after I've cleaned it - any muck dislodged in the pipes ends up in the net, job done.
 
nry said:
Personally I just wedge my fish catching net over the filter pipe into the tank after I've cleaned it - any muck dislodged in the pipes ends up in the net, job done.
Click to expand...

Ok I'll give it a go. I hope that it finally goes after doing this.. getting really fed up with it now.
 
hogan53 said:
Put a piece of pipe in the nozzle and add/stick a uplift sponge on the end.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Aquarium-Bioc ... 43b2f62b71
hoggie
Click to expand...

I've ordered some filter foam to collect the particles. Thanks for the above suggestion but if I use that sponge on the filter nozzle it will stop the rippling created by the nozzle, stopping O2 entering the tank.

Edit: I did add some fine netting to the nozzle to filter the bits coming out the nozzle. This did a good job for 12 hrs but eventually resulted in the rippling stopping so i've removed it.
 
:crazy:
:? Its only to be there for a period of time when there is no more particles coming out the filter nozzle..and your running clear water. :thumbup:
Then you remove it.
Come on kid think abought it :woot:
hoggie
 
hogan53 said:
:crazy:
:? Its only to be there for a period of time when there is no more particles coming out the filter nozzle..and your running clear water. :thumbup:
Then you remove it.
Come on kid think abought it :woot:
hoggie
Click to expand...

Well the co2 / lights will need to be turned off then otherwise I'll be searching for fish corpses otherwise. Shocking but true.
 
Whitey89 said:
Add a decent external? Were throwing ideas at you here haha.
Click to expand...

Thats not possible since there's no access points for the tubing. I have a separate open-top aquarium with an external so if need be I will switch to having a high-light planted tank in that environment.

Do I get the feeling that trying to grow plants in a tank containing power-heads, inside co2 diffusers (not inline) and internal filters is futile? I've read some journals and have found that some people have bought Juwel Rio aquariums and have immediately ripped out the internal parts (the filter and even the light ballast), something I never did because I'm not into DIY.
 
jewel internals work fine for what they are. I needed more flow and flexibility so i dumped it. Ugly space invader of a thing. Jewel lights are perfect for most tanks. Internal co2 diffusers work well too, as long as you find a good flow pattern with your filter or powerhead.
 
darren636 said:
jewel internals work fine for what they are. I needed more flow and flexibility so i dumped it. Ugly space invader of a thing. Jewel lights are perfect for most tanks. Internal co2 diffusers work well too, as long as you find a good flow pattern with your filter or powerhead.
Click to expand...

So it usually comes down to the internal not being adequate enough?
 
depends on how much flow you need. It is fine as a filter to house your friendly bacteria. But plants and high light demand higher flow to circulate the co 2. So, it is fit for original purpose.
 
Well I've been using filter foam for 24 hrs now, as advised, and the foam has collected quite a lot of these white particles and there are not so many gathering in the tank. The plants are doing a bit better now that they aren't covered in this white stuff to the extent that pearling is occurring during the latter end of the photo-period!

Although this white stuff has probably been caused by incomplete filter maintenance, the poster who thought that the white stuff was a product of biogenic decalcification induced by doing 50% water exchanges weekly as lead me to question the amount and frequency of the water changes I do given that the KH / GH of the tank water depletes over time making it more favourable for the German Blue Ram species. So instead of doing 50% W/C's (as a part of an Estimative Index dosing regime) would it be reasonable for me to do 20% W/C's every 8-9 days? The aim in doing this is to allow the KH and GH to lower over time and not fluctuate excessively when new tap water is introduced.

From a plant perspective, 50% of tap-water, with no dissolved co2, isn't ideal anyhow right?
 
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