DIY all in one fert - can I include profito?

[Crawdaddy]

Hi,

I'm currently working my way through a bottle of profito (that i bought before properly researching ) and dosing an additonal supply of potassium phosphate and potassium nitrate to make up for any shortfall. I'm currently dosing these on alternate days to stop the iron precipitating as is standard EI practice. Effectively i'm using the profito as my micronutrients.

I read in an older post (http://ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=731) about people mixing their micro and macro nutrients together and then using Ascorbic Acid and Potassium Sorbate to avoid of the issue of iron phosphate precipitate.

I'd like to get these in one mixture if possible as I want to build and auto doser on a timer. Is this method okay to use if I am using profito instead of the usual chelated trace elements? Is this all in one method even still seen as valid? The post was from back in 2007 and i've not really seen many other people talking about an all in one mixture.

Cheers
CD

 

[ian_m]

I'd like to get these in one mixture if possible as I want to build and auto doser on a timer. Is this method okay to use if I am using profito instead of the usual chelated trace elements? Is this all in one method even still seen as valid? The post was from back in 2007 and i've not really seen many other people talking about an all in one mixture.

Or build a dual version with alternate dosing, like I did.
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=22332

No issue of macro and micro reacting as dosed on alternate days.

Mine is still working fine, both bottles going down at the same rate, indicating the alternate circuitry is working.

Along with auto fish feeder, I now spend time sitting and staring at my tank, rather than fiddling with it.

 

[Crawdaddy]

I did actually have a read through your post before - your system looks great. Unfortunately however I'm a bit of a dunce when it comes to circuitry - I have a resistance to resisters you might say.

I was planning on going down a much simpler/cheaper route (http://www.guitarfish.org/2008/03/24/au ... -diy-style) using a submersible pump and a digital timer that I have laying around. Obviously I could just make two but I'd prefer to do it all in one. Even for manual dosing it would be great to have a single mixture going in at a single dose. I'm just wondering if this is still considered an acceptable method and whether I can use up the profito as well.

Along with auto fish feeder, I now spend time sitting and staring at my tank, rather than fiddling with it

Haha! I hear what you're saying. I'm a little worried about that to be honest, not sure how I feel about not having anything to work on - that's when you start looking at new tanks!

Cheers
CD

 

[ian_m]

I was planning on going down a much simpler/cheaper route (http://www.guitarfish.org/2008/03/24/au ... -diy-style) using a submersible pump and a digital timer that I have laying around. Obviously I could just make two but I'd prefer to do it all in one. Even for manual dosing it would be great to have a single mixture going in at a single dose. I'm just wondering if this is still considered an acceptable method and whether I can use up the profito as well.

It is possible to make an all in one dose mixture, see here. Quite a lot of people do this so as to only dose one solution.
http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/allinone.htm
But quite a few people have reported a precipitate forming from the solution if left to stand for a while, as well as solution going mouldy, probably because they didn't mix the solutions to the correct pH. Thus either need pH measuring equipment or accurate scales.

I decided against this and dosed two solutions as per "traditional" EI using "teaspoons" and water jug as my accurate measurement tools

I also decided against using submersible pump, as if you read the forums, people have had issues, like
- Getting the dose right as pumps tend to be too powerful despite seriously restricting the flow and end up emptying all the solution too quickly despite only being on for one or two minutes and having been previously "calibrated".
- Some people couldn't get their pumps to even pump up from underneath the tank when they restricted the flow, as some pumps has a minimum flow rate. One guy did try a bypass loop to maintain minimum flow, has handy effect of cirulating the solution in container, but then could get a reliable dose at height.
- As minimum dose (1 minute run) is quite large, weaker ferts solutions were used ie dose for 250ml mixed to 2litres, which meant mould started appearing on ferts and have to be careful of tank water levels.
- Leaks in joins in pipes going from 12mm pump outlet to 4mm pipe. Can't use jubilee clips etc on the pipes as the ferts attack the metal.
- Dosage varying depending on level of liquid in container and height of container in relation to pipe length.
- One way valves jamming due to salts crystallising out.
- Difficulty in finding a low flow pump that works in low liquid levels. Most have to be immersed completely to work as they are not self priming. (not really an issue, just don't empty the container).

This type of design comes from the marine side of things where dosing 5 litres of something (RO water, salt, carbonates etc) every 24hours is normal, but then marine tanks often have overflows to the drain to take excess liquid away.

I decided in keeping it simple(ish) and use "teaspoons" to measure ferts and peristaltic pump @ 3ml/minute to dose. No callibrating, no correct pump choosing, no leaky one way valves, no messing with different diameter pipes and no mixing of non standard EI mixes. Just pipe together with 4 lengths of 4mm pipe, pump on for 7 minutes @ reliable 3ml/minute, regardless of liquid levels. Job done.

 

[Crawdaddy]

That's a pretty comprehensive list of cons right there. Thanks for the heads up, i'll bear all those in mind.

As mentioned, I already have a submerable pump - it's tiny and can draw liquid from an extremely shallow pool. Perhaps I'll do some tests to see how it works when situated under the tank. You're right it may not be powerful enough. I've also pretty much got all the other parts too so it's no issue to try this solution first. The perstaltic option is a bit more of a commitment in terms of cost and set-up, but should the submersible fail, I know the man to talk to!

Quite a lot of people do this so as to only dose one solution

Great, that was what I wanted to hear - that people are still using this method. I'd already seen the plantedtank article but wasn't sure if it had been supeseeded by other practices. JamesC's explanations seem pretty straight forward in terms of formula and measures.

Now if one of the chemistry wizards on here would offer an opinion as to whether profito is safe to use in an all in one, that would be grand

Cheers
CD

 

[ian_m]

I spent ages looking for an automatic ferts dosing system cheaper than using peristaltic pumps, whilst being the "doggie danglers" of dosing systems are not cheap.

I found some quite ingenious dosing systems people were using, like
- Wicking system where ferts are wicked along a wick, but suffer from drying out and crystals forming.
- Drip tubes. Pass fluid along a longish small diameter tube and flow rate is nearly independant of depth of fluid in reservoir. OK but all needs to be located above tank. Really meant for hydroponic dosing of couple of litres a day.
- Various dosing schemes using air pumps. Best one I found was liquid drains into a say a 40ml container via one way valve and air pump on a timer once a day pumps air into top of container forcing liquid up another tube and into tank. Nice and simple but in practice had many failure modes. Leaking pipe output of ferts container, small container not air tight, small container not water tight, one way valves jamming open/blocking as not really designed for liquid, corroding jubilee clips and not really possible to vary dose. Nice but issues.