Newly Acquired Fish Dying - Advice Appreciated

[NatureBoy]

You're the one with the dead fish mate, not Darrel. I'd be much more humble if I were in your shoes. I read Darrel's posts and see a guy who has a level of insight and understanding worthy of respect. Ammonia/ammonium equilibria is a toxic risk, plain and simple, most go out of their way to keep levels as low and balanced as possible, this is the fundamental of fish keeping. I recommend you read "The Ecology of the Planted Aquarium" by Diana Walstead. She demonstrates through scientific studies that plants are great at taking up ammonia, but even she is respectful enough to its toxic nature that she stresses she would never actually add it directly to a tank due to it's toxicity, merely that the small amounts produced by the fish are removed before the fish are stressed. Those that add it as part of a fertilizing regime are either massively respectful to it's toxicity levels, have abundant plant growth, etc and dilute accordingly, or will invariably put a strain on fish health. For fertilizing Nitrogen stick with the nitrate salts, you can mix and match to achieve all sorts of N:K ratios, etc for anything else avoid if possible adding ammonia / ammonium. You've got more than one tank? take the filter media from the mature one and add to the new one, voila a "fishless cycle" done. I am writing this in case anyone else finds this thread, as you seem oblivious to advice.

 

[mark4785]

You're the one with the dead fish mate, not Darrel. I'd be much more humble if I were in your shoes. I read Darrel's posts and see a guy who has a level of insight and understanding worthy of respect. Ammonia/ammonium equilibria is a toxic risk, plain and simple, most go out of their way to keep levels as low and balanced as possible, this is the fundamental of fish keeping. I recommend you read "The Ecology of the Planted Aquarium" by Diana Walstead. She demonstrates through scientific studies that plants are great at taking up ammonia, but even she is respectful enough to its toxic nature that she stresses she would never actually add it directly to a tank due to it's toxicity, merely that the small amounts produced by the fish are removed before the fish are stressed. Those that add it as part of a fertilizing regime are either massively respectful to it's toxicity levels, have abundant plant growth, etc and dilute accordingly, or will invariably put a strain on fish health. For fertilizing Nitrogen stick with the nitrate salts, you can mix and match to achieve all sorts of N:K ratios, etc for anything else avoid if possible adding ammonia / ammonium. You've got more than one tank? take the filter media from the mature one and add to the new one, voila a "fishless cycle" done. I am writing this in case anyone else finds this thread, as you seem oblivious to advice.

An O2 issue caused their death Einstein.

No ammonia was in the tank on fish introduction. Note how I use the word FISHLESS cycle throughout this topic to allude to this fact, something you didn't bother to read.

Diana Walstead has her opinion (an opinion I happen to understand and support) and I and many others also have their opinions. It is my preference to do a fishless cycle because of it's huge benefits in removing ammonia and nitrite turbidity at it's conclusion.

I am writing this in case anyone else finds this thread, as you seem oblivious to advice

I do not have any obligation morally or under the law to follow anybodies advice. There is very clear difference between not being able to read advise and respectfully choosing to following it or not. The notion that you give is that of "follow my and others advise or else" which is pathetic. You should be thoroughly embarrassed of yourself.

 

[Matt Warner]

The fishless cycle has always seemed a bit overly cautious to me anyway. It's a lot of needless faffing with ammonia and inaccurate test kits. As long as you stock slowly with small fish and add loads of fast growing stem plants from day one there shouldn't be a problem. You are adding so much ammonia that you are creating a bacterial colony which is far too big than what is required. So when you stop the cycle a lot of the bacteria isn't needed so it dies off which in turn creates pollution in the tank. Pure ammonia was never designed for aquariums. Fish and healthy plants are!

 

[Nathaniel Whiteside]

Why ask for advice then have an argument with people who have taken the time and effort to reply.

You did this last time you posted a topic, a lot of very educated people offered up solutions and You ignored them all.

 

[NatureBoy]

I am thoroughly embarrassed, don't get me wrong...but like I say, I'm only contributing to this thread to emphasise the down side of playing around with ammonia.

 

[REDSTEVEO]

Mark,

I have just picked up on this thread. I am not a fan of a fish less cycle or starting any tank off without adding plants, and I would never go down the ammonia dosing route I think this is totally unnecessary, BUT that is just my opinion, which is the point I am going to make here.

When I first started using the UKAPS forum by way of introducing myself I posted a summary of my experiences to date with planted tanks, breeding discus and so on. One or two people disagreed with some of my suggestions and recommendations and posted their reasons for disagreeing. Yes I did take umbrage at first but soon came to realise that the ultimate aim of everyone on here is to help each other.

Yes we do get frustrated when people ask for advice and then either choose to ignore it or disagree with it. You look at the amount of posts there are on this forum about algae issues from new members (and some not so new) and yet if you take the time to read through the relevant subject forum the questions have all been asked before and the answers are all there if you take the time to read them.

The thing that has upset me after reading your posts, are not that you have a different point of view or opinion, but the way in which you express those views by calling people names "An O2 issue caused their death Einstein.

This is the kind of aggressive behavior which we should be avoiding as it brings no positive result and just breeds bad feeling, the kind that would make people think twice about posting or responding with advice in case they too got a load of abuse.

I would reconsider your responses and think twice before hitting the submit button in future, or if you must have an issue do it via pm and not on here for everyone to read, because I for one do not want to read it.

You may take offence to anything I have written above which you are perfectly within your rights to do so, if so please pm me and we can discuss it between us without getting into a public slanging match.

I hope that the moderators are taking notes!

Best regards,

Steve

 

[ceg4048]

I'm closing this thread for exactly the reasons eloquently summarized by Steve and others. The OP is encouraged to seek advice from other sources consistent with his views, in lieu of insulting the individuals here who have been kind enough to offer their time and assistance.

Cheers,