• You are viewing the forum as a Guest, please login (you can use your Facebook, Twitter, Google or Microsoft account to login) or register using this link: Log in or Sign Up

HELP!!! BGA Issues

thelats1981

Member
Joined
18 Jun 2012
Messages
79
Location
manchester
Hi all, I'm hoping someone may be able to help me with some advice and pointers. Apologies in advance for the length of this, but I feel I'm getting to the point of defeat and this may be last attempt to sort things out.

I've been having ongoing issues with various algae since setting my tank up 6 months ago. Most seems to have settled, however I still have BGA which is present on the substrate. This isn't getting worse as such rather its persisting and looks unpleasant to say the least, I would like to try and get rid of this once and for all!

Can anyone advise of the best way to clear the tank of the BGA (if there is a way!) so that I can move finally move forward.

Brief (?) history of tank;

  • I started out thinking that I would be ok without CO2 as it was 'too expensive', and I could just use 'non CO2 plants'. 1st error, since amended with pub bottle, reg/ solenoid set up.
  • I thought flow was ok as plants were gently swaying with one spray bar half way across the back wall. 2nd error, since amended with koralia pump, and soon to be further improved with 2nd spray bar to cover entire length of aquarium this weekend.
  • I didn't think I would need to dose ferts heavily as I've not got a huge plant mass. 3rd and 4th errors, now dosing EI (6 weeks) and am adding a lots of fast growers this weekend.
  • I thought CO2 distribution was ok as drop checker showing lime green / yellow at lights on and is on opposite side of the tank to the diffuser.
I am planning a full session on saturday to try and resolve the issues, however this will need to be done with fish remaining in the tank, which I know isn't ideal.

My plan of attack is as follows;
  • reduction of hardscape, I have 3 pieces of bog wood in the rear right hand side corner which is clearly affecting flow. Will be reduced to one piece.
  • additional spraybar
  • Improve CO2 distribution by placing diffuser centrally at the back of the tank (bubbles will be pushed forward and down)
  • Increase in plant mass
Does this plan sound ok, is there anything I'm fogetting.

Tank Stats & maintenance;

190 litre aqua one evo aquarium
Aquis 1050 external - max flow rate 1050 L /hr but probably works at 700 L/hr
Koralia 1600 circulation pump
2 x T5 39 watt tubes with reflectors (one of these has a pink hue which is soon to be replaced.)
6Kg Pub bottle CO2 with solenoid - 2 hours before lights on and off 30mins before lights off.
Ceramic diffuser (will be upgrading to up aqua inline in next week or so)

EI dosing as per Aquarium plant food instructions
5ml of Easy Carbo daily
Have recently added Carbon to filter to help reduce organic wastes.
40% water change weekly
Filter clean weekly

I will try an upload pics tonight from home to give you an idea of current layout, although this is quite embarrasing due to the state of the tank.

Really appreciate any help, I love this hobby but it really can be soul destroying at times.
 
Hello,
BGA is related to poor NO3/poor NO3 distribution, or dirty filters.

You need to specify exactly how much KNO3 you are dosing. Many people insist "I'm dosing per XYZ instructions" and it occasionally turns out they were not following the instructions properly, so you need to tell us exactly what you add and how you prepare your solutions if you are preparing a liquid mix with powders.

Cheers,
 
Hi Clive,

Thanks for the reply, I was hoping you may catch this thread! Apologies, I'm still getting my head round the maths (not my strongest subject) hence the vagueness which is clearly not useful.

The dosing regime I'm using is as follows;

4 tsp Potassium Nitrate
1 tsp Potassium Phosphate
6 tsp Magnesium Sulphate

All dissolved in 500ml water.

I'm dosing 40 ml 3 x a week, with micro's on alternate days.

Does this help?

I've read your sticky on EI dosing and still have to rely on APF's guidelines - this may give you a clue to my Mathematical ability.

really appreciate any advice
 
Hi mate,
Yes, thanks seeing the numbers clarifies. The numbers look reasonable to me. That means it's likely either a distribution issue or dirty filter. Clean the filter thoroughly, remove the BGA by hand/suction and try double dosing (80ml x 3) for a couple weeks. Do much larger water changes and more frequently is possible, not forgetting to immediately dose afterward.

Cheers,
 
Hi Clive, filter is cleaned weekly, although having said that the pipes are not, will sort this. Will also double dose and look to do 60%-70% water changes, although can only do once weekly.

In terms of distribution, I know I cannot rule this out, since I only have one spray bar running, however the BGA is most virulent where flow is the strongest. ie. front of tank where spray bar is directing flow. Should this be expected?

I have a fine gravel (unipac fuji sand) and the BGA is coating each grain which makes removing it impossible unless I take the top layer of substrate off. Will it die off, or should I just take the infected substrate out?

Hi Dolly, I use a gravel vac on the bare substrate each water change, I suspect I have too much bare substrate though! I think a heavy planting session this weekend is in order.....

thanks again for the advice, I'm never going to have a beautiful aquascape, to be honest it's not my aim. I would love the aquarium to be full of healthy plants though, for the fish and me!
 
OK, if you clean the filter regularly then that's fine. I don't think the pipes can be blamed, but it always worth cleaning them every now and then. Did you get your KNO3 from APF? There is a possibility that the KNO3 might be mislabeled. It could be another nitrate salt. Can I see a picture of your KNO3 granules?

If you can disable a bulb or reduce photoperiod for a time it will really help. Sometimes a strong light source, say from an open window shade can trigger BGA locally where the light hits. Many people experience a thin line of BGA at the substrate/water interface just due to ambient light and sometimes the only way to defeat it is to put black tape along the substrate line to block the light. You'll need to continually harass the BGA as often as you can. Also, are you sure it's BGA (Cyanobacteria) and not some other form? I know this line of questioning is too obvious but sometimes one needs to look under every stone.

After you fix your flow and manually remove you should do a 3 or 4 day blackout and dose the macro mix only at night in an unlit room. No peeking during daylight hours and no feeding. Total sensory deprivation using black plastic bin bag(s).

Most responsible people will frown at the suggestion to use an antibiotic like Maracyn, but if you can get a prescription for it then it will wipe out the BGA in short order (and maybe your filter bacteria as well so isolate it).

Cheers,
 
Hi Clive,

Yeah it came from APF, I'll upload a picture over the weekend. happy to get more from elsewhere if needed.

I guess no reason why I couldn't remove a bulb. They also have deflectors, guess these should definitely come off for the time being?

I'll get pictures of the algae uploaded at weekend (they'll be poor ones off my phone though) you may be on to something - could be black brush, but its slimy and smells earthy. unless of course I have a combination of both. the flow issue would trigger BBA with poor CO2 distribution I guess.

I'll do the blackout once I've cleaned as much out as possible, I take it I should hold back on adding plant mass until this has been completed?

thanks again
 
I guess no reason why I couldn't remove a bulb. They also have deflectors, guess these should definitely come off for the time being?
Hi mate,
Yeah, I mean, fundamentally, whenever there is an algae problem, the automatic and absolutely first response in troubleshooting and rectification has to be the removal as much light as is feasible. All algal forms thrive on light which, believe it or not, is much more important to them than it is to plants. One reason may be that they are small and have very little reserves of food/energy, so they must constantly be in light to produce their food. By comparison, plants have huge energy reserves, in the form of starch and sugars, so being exposed to low energy light and even to total darkness for days at a time is not a problem for them. That's exactly WHY blackouts have a high initial success rate.

I'll get pictures of the algae uploaded at weekend (they'll be poor ones off my phone though) you may be on to something - could be black brush, but its slimy and smells earthy. unless of course I have a combination of both. the flow issue would trigger BBA with poor CO2 distribution I guess.
Yeah, oh well, phone pics will be 100% better than what we have now, so just block all light into the room and hold steady. Try to get as close to the subjects while having it still be in focus. If it's slimy and smells earthy then it's almost assuredly BGA, and yes, you may easily have multiple issues which we ought to be able to figure out.

I'll do the blackout once I've cleaned as much out as possible, I take it I should hold back on adding plant mass until this has been completed?
Yeah, that makes things less complicated, just add them afterwards.


Cheers,
 
Hi all, when I had a BGA infestation in my tank, I tried everything from blackouts, really heavy nitrate dosing, filter cleaning etc. nothing seemed to work. I added a massive filter to add loads of flow to the tank and I cleaned the filters thoroughly every water change as they were filthy. I also added loads of co2 so that the drop checker was borderline yellow. After months of fighting it, it finally gave up and disappeared within a month completely. My advices would be not to give up, it will put up a hell of a fight but it will go, just keep up the water changes and filter cleaning, as well as heavy fert dosing and it will give up in the end!
If it wasn't for Clive's great advice, I would probably a still be trying to get rid of it now!
 
complete amateur at this so hopefully should work. various poor pics of algae and also Potassium Nitrate.
20121221_181849_zps47b1d998.jpg

http://i1298.photobucket.com/albums/ag48/thelats1981/20121221_181849_zps47b1d998.jpg

http://i1298.photobucket.com/albums/ag48/thelats1981/20121221_1821221_zps5168a7b4.jpg
20121221_1821221_zps5168a7b4.jpg


20121218_163522_zps6e27388e.jpg

http://i1298.photobucket.com/albums/ag48/thelats1981/20121218_163522_zps6e27388e.jpg

Before I get slated for it, I realise that there is a dyed skirted tetra in there. It was orphaned by a chap at work along with a couple of other tetras and would have ended up flushed I think. Don't worry, he got the lecture from me.
 
Hi,
I edited your posts to put the images inline. When you copy the image url just click the little icon that looks like a tree (fourth from the right, second row) then paste the url in the box and click "insert".

Anyway, you know, to tell the truth, the algae on the gravel looks like BBA to me mate. I mean, unless the photo has an incorrect color balance, BGA is dark green and covers the affected area with what looks like a thin sheet. That's why it's called Blue Green Algae. BBA is in small tufts and is black. That's why it called Black Beard Algae.

Unless this is some optical illusion on my part this is a CO2 stability issue, not a nitrate issue.
I copied this image from JamesC's algae guied and this is typical BBA:
bba1.jpg


This is typical BGA:
bga2.jpg


Your photo looks like what's in his BBA photo.

If the diagnosis is correct then this is another issue entirely and is attributable to poor CO2 or poor CO2 stability.

In any case your Koralia powerhead (or whatever brand that is) should be moved to the back wall equidistant from the right end of the spraybar and the right wall of the tank, and should be mounted at the same level as the spraybar, pointing straight ahead (not down or towards the side/center).

Have a look at James' Planted Tank - Algae Guide and confirm what algae this is.

Cheers,
 
Hi Clive,

Apologies for wasting your time on this, you diagnosis is correct, its BBA. I already know flow and CO2 need improving so the plan is;

installation of 2nd spray bar, done today, now have spray bars across whole width of tank. Not a huge surprise with CO2 distribution as its only been blowing around one half of the tank although this is where the algae is growing!

Next step is to get an inline diffuser if you recommend?

Until this arrives, would it be best to place the diffuser under the inlet to filter so that it goes through filter and comes out across spray bars? I guess I'm going to cause more fluctuations in CO2 while I correct the positioning.

In terms of CO2 levels, I've got a bubble counter but the CO2 is flying out so fast cant really count them. Drop checkers yellow rather than lime green to be honest but fish all ok.

I'll increase the easy carbo to double dose as well.

Anything else I should do? How quickly am I likely to see an improvement? I'm not impatient, just want to ensure that what I do is actually improving things and be able to judge if this is happening!

thanks again.
 
Oh well, no worries. Knowing what you're dealing with is half the battle. That's why I go to great lengths to check under every stone, and that's why photos are so very important.

Anyway, yep, port the gas output directly into the filter inlet just as you mentioned. Your dropchecker has 4dhK water in it right? Otherwise the color might be misleading.

If you want to see quick improvement then you might want to consider carpet bombing via 3X or more liquid carbon bottle suggested dosing. After a day or two the BBA should start to turn pink and that tells you that you are on target. Do large water changes and re-dose. From your first photo it doesn't look like there are any Excel sensitive plants in there such as Riccia. I don't know how the rainbowfish respond to it though.

I would continue to use large daily doses of the liquid carbon at the beginning of the photoperiod and only slowly withdraw it. If you've fixed the problem with the changes that you made then it won't come back in such a widespread manner, perhaps just a little on some hardscape.

As far as an inline diffuser, many report success with any of the Up Atomizers, although I've not used this model myself. Folks report that you normally need to be able set your regulators working pressure to approximately 2 Bar. There are others, such as the CalAqua inline, but these are glass and are expensive. Just make sure you get one that has the same inside diameter inlets/outlet ports as the ID of your filter hose so that you do not restrict flow and defeat the purpose. You may discover that porting to filter works a treat. See how you get on with that. If the filter burps a lot or rattles due to gas buildup then change to the inline device.

Cheers,
 
We all know that excessive lighting period can switch on the algae into growing - I have read the above thread replyies + Initial posting and there is no mention of the lighting periodicity.

Regards
paul.
 
A Siamese Algae Eater (SAE) would clear that lot in a few days - and keep it away for good. Biological warfare!
 
Hi Clive, apologies for delay coming back to you. drop checker has 4dhk bromo blue solution bought from AE. My confession here is that it already looks like a yellowy green not blue, which is why I take it to yellow. however this also means I'm not really getting any accuracy from it. I'll upload a pic of the solution straight from the bottle to give you a better idea. not sure how to remedy this?

Filter is not burbing or rattling, although I'm not seeing small bubbles coming out of the spray bar. I'm I correct in assuming this is because they have dissolved before coming back out?

We all know that excessive lighting period can switch on the algae into growing - I have read the above thread replyies + Initial posting and there is no mention of the lighting periodicity

Hi Dolly, apologies I should have advised earlier. I had a 6 hour photoperiod which has been reduced to 5 hours for the time being. On Clive's advice I have also removed the reflectors from the lights and removed a tube for the time being. I'm not after ultra fast growth anyway, just want a nice healthy shrubbery in there!
 
Hi Manrock and Jack - Rythm,

I have 4 otto's in there, think the algae has been too prevalent for them to cope with.

I've never seen a true SAE in any of my LFS and don't want to end up with a look a like which won't touch the BBA.

I also want to solve the issue, or at least improve it so that any fauna can keep it at bay rather than trying to use them as a cure. I guess it shows that something is wrong in there, plan is to fix it if possible!

Having said that I actually really like SAE's and Otto's!
 
Back
Top