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Frustration

RossMartin

Member
Joined
2 Nov 2007
Messages
358
Location
Hemel Hempstead
Hi all,

I've been playing with a tank for a while now and 4 weeks ago i decided to get it wet. I had hoped to work things out myself but i have had to give in.

Tanks details are:

ADA 75P
Custom build ADA Style cabinet
TMC GroBeam 1500 Ultima Tile 6hrs a day at 100%
JBL e1501 filter with spraybar
Hydor External 300W Heater set to 25 degrees
2KG fire Extinguisher with Up Atomiser - On 2hrs before lights turn on and off1hr before lights out
EI dosing as per Aquarium Plant Food Instructions but doing 50ml a day and not 30ml
ADA Amazonia substrate
50% London Tap water and 50% R.O Water

Hemianthus callitrichoides 'Cuba'
Cyperus helferi
Pogostemon Helferi
Anubias bart v. nana
Tropica 1-2-Grow Staurogyne repens
Tropica 1-2-Grow Eleocharis sp. 'mini'

This is the tank (I will get more and better pictures later):

fulltankshot.jpg



The problem i am having is that despite the tank being over a month old i have had hardly any growth! In fact in the last few days the plants have deteriorated.

I did a 50% water change every day for the first week. then every other day for the second week, every third day for the third week and from week four i am doing 50% every sunday.


This is the Tropica 1-2-Grow Staurogyne repens it hasn't grown at all and is now looking like this:
styr.jpg


The blyxa was doing ok but now looks like it is melting:

Blyxa.jpg


The Cuba just appears to slowly die off:
hc.jpg


The floating plants have just started to die off:
floating.jpg


And the Cypreus has always had brown leaves which i thought would be the transition form imersed to submersed:

cypreus.jpg


I did think the issue was with CO2 but i am getting the mist to all areas of the tank and i have checked this with a drop checker, but am doing it again to ensure. the drop checkers are both lime green when lights are on. I did dose easycarbo at the start to help prevent Algae...which i have't had...but then i haven't had plant growth either!

The latest bit of detrioration has happened since my 50% water change on sunday.

Any help would be fantastic as i am obviously missing something!!

Many Thanks

Ross
 
I'll be interested to see the answer to this because I had exactly the same problems with the same plants - tropica 1-2 grow staurogyne repens, HC and pogostemon helferi. However, I have always assumed that it was because I wasn't injecting co2, only easycarbo. I tried reducing the lighting and adding diy yeast co2 but it made absolutely no difference. I'm about to order the rest of the bits i need for pressurised co2.

But what is odd is that the staurogyne repens started to melt in one area and just spread out wards from that central point. The few plants that survived are now recovering and starting to grow back strongly, even though I am still not injecting any co2!

So I can relate to your frustration!

One question though. Why are you dosing 50ml EI rather than 30ml?
 
Hi Pedro,

As per our water report:

Degrees English - 24
Degrees German - 19
Degrees French - 35

I haven't got test kits, however i moved here from a mile up the road and the above numbers seem about right from when i did have test kits.

I live in Hemel Hempstead, just north of the M25. I know James Starr-Marshall lives down the road from me and he uses more R.O than i do. The reason for using R.O was because of the fish i wanted to keep, however i don't necissriarly want to breed them so i am happy to use 100% tap water if 50% is the problem......however i didn't think it would be but am happy to be corrected!

Thanks

Ross
 
I'll be interested to see the answer to this because I had exactly the same problems with the same plants - tropica 1-2 grow staurogyne repens, HC and pogostemon helferi. However, I have always assumed that it was because I wasn't injecting co2, only easycarbo. I tried reducing the lighting and adding diy yeast co2 but it made absolutely no difference. I'm about to order the rest of the bits i need for pressurised co2.

But what is odd is that the staurogyne repens started to melt in one area and just spread out wards from that central point. The few plants that survived are now recovering and starting to grow back strongly, even though I am still not injecting any co2!

So I can relate to your frustration!

One question though. Why are you dosing 50ml EI rather than 30ml?

Yeah its so annoying, when you see people like George do something similar and within 1 month their tanks has filled out and mine is like i just planted it!.

I went for 50ml just to satisfy myself that i wasn't putting enough of something in...however i do know that EI covers everything...i did because i could!!

My lighting started at 4 hours, but thought i didn't have enough so gradually increased it by half an hour each week!
 
We read all these forums and then start to think that we're beginning to understand how to set up a planted tank. 2 months later we have a tank that looks a mess and spouse asking "So how much exactly did you pay for those plants?"
 
We read all these forums and then start to think that we're beginning to understand how to set up a planted tank. 2 months later we have a tank that looks a mess and spouse asking "So how much exactly did you pay for those plants?"

Exactly!!!!!

This is why i would like to rescue them rather than replace them!!!
 
from what your saying looks like it might be melt of emersed leaves and growing fresh submerged... although this wouldn't fit with the floating plants.... hmmm
 
Well, floating plants dying has nothing to do with CO2, they use CO2 from air, unless they are constantly being wetted by the filter?
However, you may have a combination of issues and one may not be CO2 related. What exactly are you dosing? Does it contain macros like potassium, nitrate, phosphate etc? Maybe try increasing the dose even further or maybe your plant food doesn't contain something essential. Maybe the plants weren't healthy to start with and are transitioning. I once had my whole tank melt and the only way to save some of the plants was to make sure I cut out the melting part clean as it seems to reinfect the plant further, especially applicable on that staurogyne repens by the looks of it.

Nice tank otherwise, just needs to get the growing going.
 
TMC GroBeam 1500 Ultima Tile 6hrs a day at 100%
The OP has a CO2 problem. Anyone who thinks otherwise is fooling themselves. These are classic CO2 deficiency syndromes and the cause is listed in this quote.

If the OP continues to bombard his tank with Megadeath levels of radiation then it will be very difficult to achieve the required level of CO2.

Cheers,
 
Ross, how are you measuring your CO2 and can you see good circulation of the CO2 bubbles?
Hi DaveM,

I have two drop checkers one i move around the edges and the other imove about in the middle of the tanks on a couple of lolly sticks.

Do you have a glass cover over the tank? My floaters hate a cover on it. Just lost another batch as they have been covered by the glass? Is your tank maintaining a stable 25or has it been rising much higher given the temps we have had recently.

Hi Nudli,

No i don't have a cover glass, the reason for the floaters was to help reduce the amount of light going into the tank as well as for the fish. The tank temp has risen to 27.1 max because of the reason of the hot weather, but is stable around 25.1. I have two thermometers that say the same and they too are positioned around the tank.

The OP has a CO2 problem. Anyone who thinks otherwise is fooling themselves. These are classic CO2 deficiency syndromes and the cause is listed in this quote.

If the OP continues to bombard his tank with Megadeath levels of radiation then it will be very difficult to achieve the required level of CO2.

Cheers,


Hi Ceg4048,

After sitting down and evaluating everything you are right. As you were posting this i was re-positioning my Up Atomiser onto the intake of the filter and shortening the pipe work so as not to effect flow. the reason its at 100% is because of the high pitched noise the tiles make when not at 100%. I'll reduce the photo period down to 4 hours again or may look to reduce the intensity of the light.

I also noticed my spraybar had moved. Its not long enough for the whole tanks so will look to create one out of Acrylic or something else to help get the flow about.

Is there anything else i can do to help the plants?


Many Thanks to all who replied, i'm keen to get this fixed!!
 
I agree with Ceg, your light maybe way too much and I'd increase the intensity rather than the duration.

But if it makes you feel better, below are a couple of pictures of my tank before and after taken at exactly the same angle. It's a low tech tank so I've never added any sort of artificial CO2 but the plants must have been really damaged to start with, so they started melting rapidly soon after planting, an entire anubias melted on me too including the rhizome and it was one of the giant species. At the time I took the first picture below the tank only had 0.3W per gallon of of some old T8 tube which hardly even illuminated the tank enough. On the second picture I've already had upgraded to LEDs for quite some time.

dscf4476mf.jpg


2y63.jpg
 
wow, they look like they recoverd well! I;ve changed my lighting period and so will see how that goes. I've also just ordered some acrylic tubing to make a longer spraybar so i can get good flow across the whole back of the tank.

Its a big learning curve and maybe i was a bit naieve thinking i could do it all myself....thank god for a very informative and helpful forum!!
 
Hi,
If you can't reduce the intensity via the controller due to the noise, really your only other alternative is to raise the height of the unit above the water surface and add more floaters. Unsure as to why your floaters are suffering, that suggests a nutrient deficiency, but I don't see how with your dosing regime.
Have you contacted TMC about the light unit, surely that is unacceptable?
Cheerio,
Ady.
 
Hi Ady,

Yes i contacted them today this was their response:

"Good morning Ross,

The light contains a component which protects the diodes from electrical surges, this will be the source of the noise. We have found that the noise only occurs during dimming and in most applications (including my home aquarium) is either cancelled out by other noises in the environment, or is positioned where it can’t really be noticed. I must admit I ran mine for about 2 years before I noticed it at all, but my aquarium is on a landing and my spray bar creates a certain amount of background noise, also I only dim the lights for 15 mins morning and evening. It’s similar to the noise you get from a household dimmer switch.

It sounds like you’re in a situation where it’s quite noticeable, so we are able to offer a solution by removing of the component if you’d like. Although this will solve the noise issue please be aware that it does affect the warranty – using a surge protector will help to protect the light unit to some degree but we cannot guarantee it will completely eradicate the risk of damage. In any case, if you were to opt for removal and anything happened to the light our UK repair centre would be able to offer repairs for the cost of parts + £10 labour, the turn-around on this is quite fast."

Its a little fustrating because had i known about the noise i wouldn't have brought it. Also my warranty is now effected on a unit that is only a month old and i have to pay to send it to them even though they are a15 minute drive away from me as they aren't open to the public at all!!

I think i am going to write to them to explain that whilst marine tanks have a lot of noise with skimmers and reactors, planted aquariums (in my experience) are quiet and that a high pitch noise when the unit isn't at 100% isn't acceptable. However is the £10 in postage cost worth the risk of loosing £80 of plants?!?!
 
I think that Trading Standards would class this as unsuitable for purpose.

I also have a marine reef with 2 * Ecotech Radion LED lights and although there is background noise from my sump return pump and skimmer etc. I can put my ear to the lights when they are simulating sunrise / sunset (graduated dimming) and they are completely silent. Yes they are around £600 each but that is not the point.

IMO if TMC are using what appears to be inappropriate components that shouldn't be your problem. I personally find their response completely unacceptable.

I too was considering replacing my T5 lights with LED on my planted aquarium but I am sure it will not be a TMC device having read this.
 
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