Proper attempt

[virgojavier]

Hello everybody
I have been following lots of journals on this forum and finally decided to create my own, where I could seek for advice and some useful hints.
I am in possesion of a small tank (55l) which was a gift from a workmate who really wanted to get me involve in aquascaping. Thx Andy!
I started my adventure about 10 months ago, lots of mistakes unfortunatelly, lots of lessons...
Thanks to this forum I've been able to find solutions to almost all problems which I came across.
Without going into details here I am, with an idea for a restart of my tank.

Tank dimensions: 59cm(L)x29cm(W)30cm(H)
Light: Arcadia Twin 15W Lighting Controler (2x15W Tropical Light Arcadia Bulbs)
Heater: TetraTex HT100
Filtration: Aqual VersaMax FZN2 (800l/h), will be replaced with Fluval 105 external filter
CO2 System: Tetra Optimat (which is a pain), will be replaced with DIY CO2 FE unit

I could not find a way to explain it to my wife that I would like to spent aprox 100 quids on a few bags of ADA soil, so decided to go a cheaky way and bought myself a bag (18l) of Akadama from my local bonsai seller. Hope its not radioactive lol

After reading JamesC thread about Akadama I went through some preparations:
- decided to replicate ADA substrate system and sieve through my Akadama to separate large fraction which could potentially became equivalent to Power Sand and the fine fraction as something similiar to Amazonia Powder Soil.

I used two sieves with mesh size 4mm and 2mm

Before using it in the tank I left it flooded for a week with few ingredients (CaCO3, MgSO4, KHPO4):

A bit cloudy but hopefully I will get rid off all the dust during the final washing process.
After a week gave it a proper wash and transfer both fractions to two separate bags.

Like I said I am going to replicate ADA substrate system so I bought some stuff on Ebay:

I am also thinking about spreading some more CaCO3 below the substrate with an activated carbon and granulated peat.

Looking forward for your comments.

To be continued...

Regards
Lucas

 

[Henry]

Looks like you're really going for it. If you're dosing EI when the tank is set up, don't get too obsessed about nutrient loading the substrate, although, every little helps!

I wonder what actually goes into those powders? At the price they sell them on eBay, however, it's not exactly going to bankrupt you if they don't live up to expectations.

Best of luck with your restart.

 

[virgojavier]

At my work place (I am a chemist), after running few quality measurements I can tell that :
- Penac W (is mainly SiO2 in around 99%), sample purchased on ebay is exactly the same
- Penac P (CaCO3 in 98% and a bit of MgCO3), again sample ok.
- Super Clear - this is just an Activated Carbon very fine milled
- Tourmaline - Boron in 99%

The guy selling them on ebay is obviously making a double profit...
All that stuff which is on the photo cost me 8 quids

Regards
Lukasz

 

[foxfish]

Great idea...if it is necessary or not doesn't matter to me .. it just a great thing to do.

 

[Henry]

Wouldn't want to bother ordering all the stuff in bulk though, much nicer in little sealed bags

The 'Tourmaline' is the most interesting; is this included in everyday fertiliser dosing?

 

[Gary Nelson]

A great start... Looks like your research is going to pay off, I look forward to seeing more

 

[virgojavier]

Here is the link if someone will be interested:
ADA Super Clear Tourmaline Bacter 100 Penac P Penac W | eBay

Well I will go with EI fertiliser method:
Made up two solutions Macro and Micro.
Macro contains: KNO3, KHPO4 and a bit of MgSO4,
Micro contains:
Fe 8.2%
Mn 1.82%
Zn 1.16%
B 1.05%
Cu 0.23%
Mo 0.15%

As you can see Boron is present in my Micro solution, so it will be dosed twice per week.
Tourmaline will be added just below the substrate to help kick in and then the deficite of Boron will be supplemented with Micro solution.

Thats the plan I dont know if its right, but it all makes sense to me from chemical point of view.

 

[Henry]

Ah, I see. Good to know I'm not missing anything from my dosing. Makes perfect sense to have the nutrients immediately available for the plants from day 1, and for £8, it's a small price to pay for the best start possible.

 

[ceg4048]

I have been following lots of journals on this forum and finally decided to create my own, where I could seek for advice and some useful hints.

Hello,
Here is a useful hint: It's a complete waste of time attempting to simulate ADA Aquasoil or Powersand if you are also dosing EI. None of those products shown in your post (whether cheaper knock off or expensive original) will make a difference in plant health. The concentration requirement for Boron is miniscule, probably around 0.1 mg/L per week. So if it's already in your EI mix then it's completely redundant to add it to the sediment. Boron is released in to the atmosphere by geothermal activity around the world, and so it diffuses into your tank from atmosphere just by opening your hood. People spending money for Tourmaline are insane. You can just buy Boric acid or any Borate salt (which costs 100X less) and just add a pinch of powder. This nutrient is definitely NOT something to worry about.

In the ADA system the water column dosing is restricted to small amounts of Potassium. The sediment nutrient concentrations are so high that these compounds leech into the water column and THAT is how the plants get their start. Foliar uptake is much more efficient than root uptake, especially since the root must undergo transformation when first submerged.

The fact that Akadama is clay is 100X more important than the addition of any of those products because of clay's high CEC. You could have simply added some slow release fertilizer and small amounts of crushed peat to the substrate (or even added mulm from another tank) and that would have been a lot more effective for getting the bacterial populations started in the sediment.

You should really concentrate more on having effective CO2 and flow distribution instead of spending time and energy buying products containing ingredients that are already in your tap water, or which are easily obtained from the supermarket.

Cheers,

 

[virgojavier]

Thank You very much Ceg4048! Your comments are truly inspiring.
I've been thinking about adding Osmocote.
I have mentioned this before, I bought a bag of granulated pest, couldnt get sphagnum moss peat anywhere unfortunatelly. So decided to crash the granules in a mortar and spread them around.

My CO2 system is almost ready, wont start the tank without completing it first. Will post some photos later.

Thx again
Lucas

 

[foxfish]

Maybe but, just because it is not nessary does not mean it s not fun & I think we should all make the most of our hobbies & if that involves a bit of experimentation to add some extra enjoyment then that is fantastic!
I only get concerned if any fauna is at risk.

 

[Nice]

Hello

None of those products shown in your post (whether cheaper knock off or expensive original) will make a difference in plant health.

Ok,Takashi Amano revolutionized aquarium keeping. Don't you think that such an important person, who made planted aquarium a successful and easy thing to achieve, do have researched a lot more that 20 years, and had developed the best products he could bring to market, so he can be successful in aquarium business like he is.

I believe that those products are important...

 

[ceg4048]

Hi,
Well certainly, no can argue with what you believe. We are free to believe what we want, and as foxfish mentions, we are free to have as much "fun" as we want. However, my post has nothing to do with belief or fun. My post has everything to do with science and facts. For those who read this and other threads regarding the effectiveness of various aquarium products, and who are truly interested in determining science fact from science fiction, it's necessary to clarify these points.

Don't you think that such an important person, who made planted aquarium a successful and easy thing to achieve..,

And how did you arrive at the conclusion that Mr. Amano made anything easier? Planted tanks are just as difficult to achieve success as they were before. Just as many folks suffer problems using these products as those who don't...and that is directly attributable to their beliefs. What I am saying is that it's very easy to show how irrelevant these products are and that by an overwhelming margin, your chances of success are better if you pay attention to the things that actually matter when it comes to plant health. Again, this is not to say that Amazonia is ineffective. It is in fact, my favorite substrate, is packed with goodness, and it is brilliant overall, but it is very expensive and you can have just as much success using Akadama which is cheaper by orders of magnitude. I mean, the Akadama thread proves that, doesn't it? Have you read the thread? I'm pretty sure the OP figured this out, and that's why he decided to use a substitute clay product. Once you learn how and why plants grow, it will become obvious which products are important and which products are not. Then you don't have to rely on belief, you can save money and still have fun.

Also, bringing a product to market does not necessarily mean that the product is any good. Corn Flakes is a very popular product and is a commercial success, however, plain old corn on the cob is 100X healthier option than Corn Flakes.

What folks should do to separate belief from fact is to test the products against a control and determine the differences by observation.

couldnt get sphagnum moss peat anywhere unfortunatelly. So decided to crash the granules in a mortar and spread them around.

Again, this is another source of confusion and as a result has led to more myths. The function of adding sphagnum moss peat is really to add carbohydrates to the sediment. Bacteria need to eat starch just like every other living thing. The peat decays, breaks down and the bacteria have access to the carbohydrates. Because of this, you do not need to get any special peat. You can go outside in your garden and grab a handful of grass, then dry it in your oven. This will do exactly the same job as peat, AND it's free...the bacteria don't really care what the source of starch is as long as it is in a useable form. After the peat or grass is exhausted, the bacteria can depend on the release of sugars and other carbohydrates into the sediment and water column.

Cheers,

 

[Nice]

your chances of success are better if you pay attention to the things that actually matter when it comes to plant health.

Would you please tell us all, what actually matter when it comes to plant health?

1 million dollar question

 

[foxfish]

Easy... for a hight tech tank - CO2 in abundance, for a low tech tank - lots of patience.
How you achieve the balance of CO2, fertilisers & light is the tricky bit.

 

[ceg4048]

Exactly. CO2 is 95% of all things that matter . Aquatic plants grow because of CO2 availability. If you have a problem in your tank, there is a 95% chance that the problem is directly related to poor CO2 uptake. Next come nutrients, and the OP has already maximized his nutrient availability by purchasing a system of dosing that ensures maximum nutrient availability. If you adhere to a policy of unlimited nutrient availability then the sediment brand is rendered moot, however, it is always better to have nutrition in both the sediment and in the water column. That is easily accomplished by using osmocote or any slow release fertilizer under the sediment. The fact that Akadama is a clay product, very similar to Amazonia, means that nutrient from the water will adhere to the clay. That is a property of clay. Detritus and debris will settle into the sediment and the sediment will be populated by nitrifying bacteria. There will be a symbiotic relationship between the plant roots and the bacteria. The plant will produce Oxygen and will send Oxygen to the roots, where it will be expelled, thus ensuring the continued presence of aerobic bacteria. These bacteria act to detoxify the sediment and to convert some nutrient containing compounds into more bioavailable forms for the plant to uptake. None of these vital processes are enhanced any better by using these products versus those products that are cheaper and which are more readily available.

Also important is to keep the tank as meticulously clean as possible and to avoid the buildup of noxious waste. Many do not heed this advice under the mistaken impression that they must "keep their parameters the same".

Having proper flow and distribution patterns in the tank are among "things that matter" poor flow and poor distribution will completely eliminate any possible advantage that can be gleaned by adding overpriced editions of commonly available compounds. So, in the same way that you can buy generic medication, you can get exactly the same active ingredient buy going to the supermarket or chemist

As clearly noted by the OP, one of those products, it turns out, uses Calcium Carbonate as it's active ingredient. Well, does you home suffer from limescale deposits on your pluming and kettle heating element? Isn't that annoying? Well guess what? That annoyance is called Calcium Carbonate CaCO3. So that means the active ingredient in a product that cost £85 per kilo, most people already have in their tap water (as a side note, I think getting Calcium for free just by opening the tap instead of shelling out £17, or £8 for it is major Fun .)

And of course, last but certainly not least is that the hobbyist must ensure that the lighting is not overemphasized. When these basic conditions are attended to then it doesn't really matter what products you add to the sediment or even what type of sediment is being used.

Cheers,

 

[virgojavier]

WoW. Did not expect that my thread will start such adisscussion
Anyway, here are some updates

CO2 system almost ready, I need to buy some nice diffuser, bubble counter and drop checker.
This one is on top of my list, being honest all the Flo CO2 equipment looks very nice.
Flo Deci Glass CO2 Diffuser
I have also bought this peat:

Now I need to focus on conviencing wife to let me buy TMC Signature Tank Wish me luck lol
Regards
Lucas

 

[foxfish]

Ah well you set the scene saying you we're a chemist....lol

 

[Samjpikey]

Where did you get the boc reg and how much did it cost ?
Cheers


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[virgojavier]

Got it for free from my friend who is a professional welder. No idea how much is it worh. U recon its expensive?
Regards
Lucas