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Calling for help, starting to be tired !!!

zanguli-ya-zamba

Seedling
Joined
6 Oct 2012
Messages
911
Location
Democratic Republic of Congo
Hi guys,

I am again in an aquascaping blues !!!!! :banghead: :arghh:
I am very lost guys, after writing my first aquascaping blues thread, I decided to go for a new scape without informing the forum or starting a journal to be sure to succes before showing something.
So I cleaned the tank, the filter, the sand, the rocks, and wen for a very simple scape. I made this choice as I did last for easy flow and distribution. Now the tank is planted for more than two weeks. I can clearly see some CO2 issue. But I don't understand why.

Filtration is done with a FX5 and steel flow pipe of NA. On my last scape flow had too much pressure (plant were a bit rocking like a flag in a storm), so this time I decided to go with a less stronger flow. But I can tell that flow is veery good, because all CO2 bubbles are push in all area of the tank, without missing any spot, and all the plants are slowly moving in the flow. I am pretty sure that my flow is good, because when I started this hobby, my tank had very poor flow, battling with hair algae etc ... and for a long time I have search how to optimize the flow until I have found the good flow and hair algae and other distribution problems were "clean". Even when I watch video of other scape that are stunning, flow is as good as mine or some even much slower !!

Lights are only 2x36 w at 29 -cm from the water surface and on for 5 hours only. This is not a lot of light at all it is very low light, and photoperiod is quite short. So I don't think it's a matter of strong light etc...

Since the first day CO2 have been set up, with a very nice drop of the Ph !!
Before lights on, ph 5,2
45 min CO2 on, ph 4,1
1,5 hour CO2 on, Ph 3,7 and it stays there for the whole photoperiode. So I can assume that injection rate is good, and this from the first day.
Next day before lights on Ph is came back at 5,2, so this means degassing is ok.

So how come I have CO2 issue ??? I am very lost and starting to drop my arms down again.
I can also see diatom algae coming back, it is starting to cover the sand and some leaves :(, some of you will tell me this is a sign of too much light but how come with 200 L and only 72w over it can be too strong ??
Water change is 60% 2 x per week.

My last option is that maybe, it's because when I do water change I directly use water from the tap, without, living the water to rest for 24 hours. But before I have never had issues doing that.

The plants that are melting are : Monte Carlo (can be grow in lowtech tank)
Alternanthera Mini
Ammania Bonsai
Can it be possible that light is too low ?? I don't think so.
After more than a year in this community I have learn soooo much and I have the answer for every thing but anything is going right !!
I am lost and almost to the point to give up :banghead:
Why I was having so much success when I knew nothing about aquascping nuking 3x54w over 250L
and bad flow and bad co2 management ?

Please guys help, I need your support and help.

a desperate Zanguli
 
Ferts?
Do you know if you have Chloride in the tap water? Aerating it for 24 hours before using it will degas that, maybe the watercompany changed something, they usually don't give notification of changes.
 
Maybe Chloride yes but before when they were using it you could clearly smell it when opening the tap. since more than a year I can smell nothing.
Maybe someone can tell us if chloride can do structural issues (melt ...) Darrel ? Clive ?

My truck company use to transport Chloride and sulfate for national water company but since more than a year we don't do that any more.

guys I am so desperate
 
...maybe it's time to take the other pill, and go back to what you were doing.

Diatom algae is usually an initial stages thing, some substrates seem to increase the chances of getting it, but I wouldn't be worried so long as plant growth is good, and you have an algae crew.

The main downer is plants melting...could this be emmersed to submerged transition, etc? is there sign of growth too? Look for positives, and move towards them.

No growth / pearling with CO2 injection implies that the plants are missing ferts or aren't given enough light / long enough to kickstart the photosynthetic machinery. I use a 10 hr photoperiod, get a bit of algae for sure (I'm currently having fun with cladophora), but never get a wilting plant, and the plants fizz like champagne for the last 4 hours. (I have 2 39wt T5s 15cm above a 270 l 22 inch deep tank)

I'm guessing you're using RO / v soft water to get that pH profile with gas injection, are you sure you are remineralising your water with calcium, magnesium, etc.
What about the NPK? (I'd also be a little concerned that some plant enzymes / symbiotic bacteria may be deactivated in very acidic waters)

I'd say go with your gut instincts on this.
 
...maybe it's time to take the other pill, and go back to what you were doing.

Diatom algae is usually an initial stages thing, some substrates seem to increase the chances of getting it, but I wouldn't be worried so long as plant growth is good, and you have an algae crew.

The main downer is plants melting...could this be emmersed to submerged transition, etc? is there sign of growth too? Look for positives, and move towards them.

No growth / pearling with CO2 injection implies that the plants are missing ferts or aren't given enough light / long enough to kickstart the photosynthetic machinery. I use a 10 hr photoperiod, get a bit of algae for sure (I'm currently having fun with cladophora), but never get a wilting plant, and the plants fizz like champagne for the last 4 hours. (I have 2 39wt T5s 15cm above a 270 l 22 inch deep tank)

I'm guessing you're using RO / v soft water to get that pH profile with gas injection, are you sure you are remineralising your water with calcium, magnesium, etc.
What about the NPK? (I'd also be a little concerned that some plant enzymes / symbiotic bacteria may be deactivated in very acidic waters)

I'd say go with your gut instincts on this.


Hi nature boy,

thanks for your answer mate !! unfortunately I don't have an algae crew, first because I can't find these type of fish or shrimp in congo. Second is that I want to know how to grow plant before doing plant and fish.

The first two weeks plant were growing, and than it's stop growing and start melting ( I have change nothing). But for example the leaves that were growing on the Monte Carlo was tiny, smaller than HC, I have the same phenomenon on the hydrocotile tripartita, ammania. Maybe light is not enough ???
I think you could be right on that.

regarding ferts. Where I live tap water is very very very soft. So Two time a week when I dose macro I put MgSO4 and Ca. I never miss it. PO4 and KNO3 is dose more than in the tutorial. Same for trace mate.

The plant that is suffering more is Monte Carlo, and it's the plant that have the best position regarding CO2 and flow.

Guys do you think that Only 5 hours of 72w is too short or too low ? I am starting to think that. But if I increase light the diatom will go even stronger !!!

thank for helping !!!!!
 
Hi Cheers for letting me know how the new growth looks.

Sounds like a calcium deficiency, not light related. My water is moderately hard and has about 80ppm calcium, 4ppm magnesium and 2ppm potassium.

So I'm not used to remineralising soft / RO water so cannot comment on a successful formula, but Victor Lantos certainly does with great success. Maybe double check his fert routines and see if you can copy it?

:shh: (I can't help but think that you have calcium locked out by too much K relative to Ca but that's just me! Excess of K, Na, Ca, Mg... fact or myth? | Page 2 | UK Aquatic Plant Society:

cheers
 
Hi Cheers for letting me know how the new growth looks.

Sounds like a calcium deficiency, not light related. My water is moderately hard and has about 80ppm calcium, 4ppm magnesium and 2ppm potassium.

So I'm not used to remineralising soft / RO water so cannot comment on a successful formula, but Victor Lantos certainly does with great success. Maybe double check his fert routines and see if you can copy it?

:shh: (I can't help but think that you have calcium locked out by too much K relative to Ca but that's just me! Excess of K, Na, Ca, Mg... fact or myth? | Page 2 | UK Aquatic Plant Society:

cheers


Thanks mate !!!
I thought that this was a myth. but I will read again this thread. But I am sure that master Clive told us it is a myth lol .

Maybe my dosing regime can help us.

KNO3 --> 1/2 tsp 3 time a week (I put a bit more of 1/2)
KH2PO4 --> 1/3 tsp (a bit less) 3 time a week
MgSO4 --> 1/2 tsp 2 time a week (1st after WC)
Ca --> 1/2 tsp 2 time a week (1st after WC)

Trace --> 1/3 tsp 3 time a week.

........
 
this is just me...and we're all entitled to our own opinions...but I'd go way easier on the KH2PO4, say just 1/4 teaspoon max split over the week. Get Magnesium Nitrate and Calcium Nitrate and aim for 5ppm - 10ppm Nitrate, more calcium, less magnesium and less potassium.

The trace I'd scale way back on too. What substrate do you use?

(...all I know is only bad things happen when I up the K, and I tend to trust my own judgement on that....I'll leave it at that)

Clive is gonna kill me when he gets home
 
this is just me...and we're all entitled to our own opinions...but I'd go way easier on the KH2PO4, say just 1/4 teaspoon max split over the week. Get Magnesium Nitrate and Calcium Nitrate and aim for 5ppm - 10ppm Nitrate, more calcium, less magnesium and less potassium.

The trace I'd scale way back on too. What substrate do you use?

(...all I know is only bad things happen when I up the K, and I tend to trust my own judgement on that....I'll leave it at that)

Clive is gonna kill me when he gets home

The substrate is just plain sand of congo river !!
We will see what Clive will say. maybe he will kill us hahaha. But I remember Tom and Clive saying that Ratio doesn't matter and that you just need to be sure that ferts have to be sufficient for the plant demand. So I assume that even if you dose more than what is recommended it wont be harmful for plants.
Lets see what they say.

cheers
 
...I know what they'll say.

I also know that although you can grow in sand it's not the best media for planting. You're making life hard on yourself by using sand along with the soft water. Would you plant a houseplant in sand or soil? same with aquatic plants, soils and clays hold onto cations...then anions...like a magnet close to plant roots, and have abundant trace elements too...it gives you loads more room for error. Sand dosen't do that, incidentally sand is heavily linked to diatom algae, something to do with silicates perhaps.

Switch to good ol mud, that lovely deep red stuff you have in Congo would be awesome! Look at the verdant growth coming from that rich clay top soil...can you imagine that plant life growing in sand?
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Hi all, I'd definitely lengthen the photo-period. I always use 12 hours light, and just up the plant mass when I have a very bright light.
incidentally sand is heavily linked to diatom algae, something to do with silicates perhaps.
No, that ones a myth. Silica sand is inert and Diatoms can only make their frustules from silicic acid (H4SiO4), details here <High amount of silicate in tap water | UK Aquatic Plant Society> & <http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/combining-chemical-filtration-media.20015/>.
You're making life hard on yourself by using sand along with the soft water. Would you plant a houseplant in sand or soil? same with aquatic plants, soils and clays hold onto cations...then anions...like a magnet close to plant roots, and have abundant trace elements too...it gives you loads more room for error.
I like a substrate with a bit of AEC/CEC, but if you use EI the substrate doesn't make much difference, you can't really use a terrestrial plant analogy, you are in an entirely hydroponic system with all the nutrients non-limiting and in solution, so substrate really doesn't matter.
that lovely deep red stuff you have in Congo would be awesome
The red Congo clay soil won't actually have many nutrients (but it does have high CEC), it is "laterite" and all the soluble compounds have been leached out, leaving the insoluble aluminium, silica and iron oxides/hydroxides.

cheers Darrel
 
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