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New "shallow" high tech planted setup

James Flexton

Member
Joined
21 Aug 2007
Messages
358
Location
Stotfold, Herts/Beds
Hi All,

i am expecting delivery of my new tank in a couple of weeks and as im starting this tank from scratch i want to make sure i buy the best possible equipment i can without spending ADA type money.

im sure there are a lot of people asking the same questions on here but if i can list what i have shortlisted please can any of you comment on the quality or products / suitability for the tank.

tank 100x40x30 (30 is the height) optiwhite float glass, braceless

substrate
Elos Terra Zero powder 14.60 EURO
http://www.elos.eu/productlines/freshwater/bottomsystem~42/terrazero~208.html#.U9YaWPldV8E
Elos bottom material 5L 24.65 EURO
http://www.elos.eu/productlines/freshwater/substratinaturali~39/bottommineral~175.html#.U9ZsufldV8F
Elos Terra Black 9L small 51.30 EURO
http://www.elos.eu/productlines/freshwater/substratinaturali~39/terrablack~176.html#.U9Zsy_ldV8F
Total cost substrate 90.55 EURO (£71.59)


CO2 (will be usinf 2kg FE)
professional dual stage reg with solenoid with precision needle valve £69.99
http://www.co2art.co.uk/collections...l-stage-regulator-and-solenoid-magnetic-valve
Diffuser not sure of, ive used rhinox glass diffusers before, ive seen inline diffusers and not sure how effective they are. it would be nice to keep another thing out of the tank.
http://www.co2art.co.uk/collections...ine-co2-atomizer-diffuser-system-16-22mm-hose

Lily pipes - £38.99
http://www.co2art.co.uk/collections...-made-glass-aquarium-lily-pipes-set-o17-16-22

Lighting
im wavering between led and t5.
either arcadia OT5 2x39W T5 - £172.54
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Arcadia-O...3?pt=UK_Pet_Supplies_Fish&hash=item461b7cdcbb
or these led lights (LED luminaires are £400 ish - over budget)
13W - £159.99
http://www.co2art.co.uk/collections...-13w-led-for-nano-planted-tank-aquarium-6500k
20W - £169.99
http://www.co2art.co.uk/collections...d-for-planted-tank-aquarium-40cm-height-6500k
25W - £179.99
http://www.co2art.co.uk/collections...power-25w-led-for-planted-tank-aquarium-6500k

there's not much in it in price between the 13/20/25W so not sure what would be best for the tank. i want it bright and good plant growth (noted that co2 is more important!) my hesitation is that its a circular unit so will surely get more growth in the centre of the tank and less at the sides. is this true? does anyone have any experience of these?

so thats the kit i'm looking at. any thoughts or comments appreciated.

also as a side note i will need a filter but not researched yet. bearing in mind i will need a good water flow to distribute co2 effectivley what is the usual route regarding filters. 10x turnover ive read is optimal so are you lot using a big external or two smaller units. ive never seen a tank with more than one lily pipe fitted to i assume its one big external you lot go for.
if anyone would care to suggest a suitable filter (without costing the earth) id appreciate it.

to say things have changed since my last proper planted tank 6 or 7 years ago is an understatement. i remember looking for 4-5 WPG, 4x turnover, ei dosing etc..

naturally i will do another journal for this new tank and keep it up dated from initial build through to maturity. its going to be an interesting journey...
 
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I don't know about the mechano set lights, would think you would need a few on a tank that length. You could get an Classica Stretch 120cm and hang it. That or you could get 3-4 of the Wavepoint 6500K Clamp Lamp - 12".

How about looking a sera 1000 reactor rather than the diffuser?
 
Elos came in a lot cheaper than Ada when using powersand and aqua soil combo with base layer powder. I think I priced it up at about £250 for the quantity I'd need.
I forgot to add in 2 bags of terra black so that's about £120 ish. Still half price of Ada. Thanks for pointing out I need more than one bag

Thanks for links to glass wear alje but I'm pretty sure I want lily pipes rather than spray bars.

Thanks for recommending reg pepedopolous. Have you used it then? I've had 5 different regs over the years and had problems with every one of them. Mostly due to leaking or solenoids exploding

Thanks for lighting suggestions enderuk. I'll look into those as well
 
For co2 I think you'd need an external diffusor/reactor. 30cm minus substrate doesn't buy you a lot of time for diffusion in the tank (especially in a long tank like yours)
 
Thanks for recommending reg pepedopolous. Have you used it then? I've had 5 different regs over the years and had problems with every one of them. Mostly due to leaking or solenoids exploding

I'm not using it in a running setup but will be starting it soon. I've only had one other reg. from the now defunct lunapets but with the smc needle valve this is much better. I tested the co2art reg on a bottle which was pretty much empty and wouldn't work on my original reg. It worked perfectly which is testament to the two stages. The BMV solenoid is super. I have one with my original lunapets reg. 3 years no probs with heat or leaks. TBH many CO2 issues can be due to bad check valves.

Regarding the ADA vs Elos prices you don't need any extra substrate additives. If you feel like it, you could use some pumice or lava rock to build-up the height. However, to pay so much for top-brand additives is not worth it. Bona fide homeopathic snake oil.

For CO2 diffusion, have a look at the Up atomisers, also available from CO2art. If you're daring, put one on the filter inlet.

P
 
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I do want it fine, I've used eco complete on my 40 and 100 gallon tanks and it's a bit too gravel like. This tank is going to be using very small plants like Hc etc so want a fine grain substrate. Amazonia powder is £50 a bag and after talking to james at green machine he said I'd need a bag of powersand beneath it so that's another £73 so that's 223. Hence why I'm looking at elos..??? Confused now. I don't want to scrimp on substrate quality but also don't want to spend a fortune on er mud

James o, great point re height of tank. I hadn't thought of that you are right ceramic in tank diffuser won't work well at all.

Pepedopolous, all my regs have leaked around either the main thread to the fe or out of the stalk the gauges are sitting on. I've just read somewhere that you shouldn't over tighten them. Is this true. I have always added ptfe tape and tightened till my knuckles turn blue.
I'll get that reg then. Looks good and if others have got it I'd feel better. Rather than my last one I ebay'd from Malaysia broke in a week!
 
Amazonia is fairly fine anyway, the powder is nice to look at but it will ruin the substrate for a second use. Power sand isn't a must, really only beneficial in deep substrate banking and again makes reusing the substrate a total pain. I certainly wouldn't pay £73 for some! Alfagrog is basically the same thing if you want a tall bank.
Your plants will grow in inert gravel, sure Amazonia has benefits but it's the co2 that makes or breaks a tank.

In tank diffusers work fine in shallow tanks but a reactor will likely be less of a headache.

Don't over tighten, ptfe and slightly more than finger tight, the gas pressure does the work for you ;)
 
Seriously, you might as well take the money you would spend on powersand and burn it. Powersand is how ADA dealers make a quick buck. Even Amano says it is not needed.

I've never used pfte tape but if you search this forum I think the consensus is that you shouldn't use it to connect the reg. to the tank. I think it's something to do with small pieces of tape breaking loose...
 
Thanks guys, may explain countless headaches I've had ha ha.
 
Hi James

Co2art reg+solenoid+SMC needle valve is definitely a good option. I have this combination (with an inline atomizer) and I am very happy.
I've seen there is an interesting discussion around substrates and powders... but my worries for a 140 cm shallow high tech tank would be the flow and filtering system. On the one hand and as mentioned before, Co2 diffusion on line is probably the only option (I think there is no water column enough for other diffuser devices inside the tank). On the other hand you will need a good filter to move all this water and CO2 along 140 cm (in a high tech I can well imagine quite a lot of plants making your life imposible). Not sure if a powerful filter with a single lily pipe would blow the substrate (with 3-4 cm of substrate and the outlet a few cm under the water... the outlet would work on just 20 cm of water column). Maybe two medium filters with two spraybars? Or two medium filters with nano pipes looking towards the front glass? In that case CO2 in one of them or in both?
You are probably much more experince but for me this is the challenge!

Jordi
 
Hi James

Co2art reg+solenoid+SMC needle valve is definitely a good option. I have this combination (with an inline atomizer) and I am very happy.
I've seen there is an interesting discussion around substrates and powders... but my worries for a 140 cm shallow high tech tank would be the flow and filtering system. On the one hand and as mentioned before, Co2 diffusion on line is probably the only option (I think there is no water column enough for other diffuser devices inside the tank). On the other hand you will need a good filter to move all this water and CO2 along 140 cm (in a high tech I can well imagine quite a lot of plants making your life imposible). Not sure if a powerful filter with a single lily pipe would blow the substrate (with 3-4 cm of substrate and the outlet a few cm under the water... the outlet would work on just 20 cm of water column). Maybe two medium filters with two spraybars? Or two medium filters with nano pipes looking towards the front glass? In that case CO2 in one of them or in both?
You are probably much more experince but for me this is the challenge!

Jordi

thanks Jordi,

you are right the issue is going to be the water circulation across the whole tank. i am planning on using mainly carpeting plants though and mosses etc, little if any stem plants. if i hardscape correctly i will have a clear run of open water around the whole tank with some rocks breaking the water and emersed plants growing up them. i am torn as to the best options for filtration. ideally i want one filter, removing the need for additional inlets and outlets in the tank, dual co2 reactors etc... so i suppose the answer is a powerful filter with a lilypipe directing the flow around the tank in a horizontal circular flow pattern rather than vertical loop pattern as you would usually aim for.


eh? youve lost me sorry lol
 
You'll get 25kg of black blasting grit for about £20, if you're dosing to EI you don't have to spend £70. If you really want some rich substrate buy a bag of line free top soil, sieve out all the big bits and put about 10mm below the blasting grit

Sent from my Radar C110e using Tapatalk
 
There are plenty of opinions about substrate & I would not dispute any of them but I have my own opinions that might differ from some!

Personally I don't like using any sharp edges grains or anything that compacts, it might not matter but I feel that when starting a new tank, I like to stack the odds, as best I can, towards the plants future...

I like ADA because it has a high concentrate of nutrients, it is great for scaping undulating slopes without collapsing & eventually forming a flat scape.
It is plant friendly to push the roots into without causing damage & allows easy growth for the plant roots to further push through.

If I were to use a sand I would look for river washed round grain sand without shell in it.

Just my own opinions of course but I have always had great success with high CEC & AEC capacity soft grain substrates & not so great start ups using inert hard substrates.
I think a lot depends or your ultimate goals & the overall look you want....
 
im not dosing EI in the old school sense, might use ADA ferts might go tropica tpn+ not sure. i will certainly use a nutrient rich substrate as the tank is in the office and fert addition will probably be a bit hit and miss. certainly not proper EI as i havent got time for all that messing about.

so if i went for just ADA amazonia would you lot suggest the normal one or the fine one. ive watched the greenmachine set up vid on crimson sky scape and the powder looks fantastic. although i have a habit of chopping and changing whole scapes every few months so if i mix layers of substrate that will end up a big mixed up mess.

so can i go with just ada amazonia powder or is that not advised? there will be some sizeable rocks in the scape protruding out of the water so i need something supportive that wont shift about too much. im not sure if just normal amazonia will look right.
hmm round in circles i go...

on the plus side as its an office tank i get the VAT back!!
 
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