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Leaving hobby or move to Low Tech (260 litre bow fronted tank)

Pinkmummy79

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Joined
5 Dec 2012
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335
Location
Weston Super Mare
Hi

My 260 l fluval vicenza is curently set up in high tech mode running co2 through 2 x UP inlines (2KG FE) and dosing ei daily, I also spot dose liquid carbon daily as have ongoing BBA issues which I have been unable to eradicate for the past 12 months. So I am now considering either the possibility of shutting the tank down for good or hopefully changing to less weekly work and tinkering and hopefully start to enjoy it more with a low tech planted tank.

I am just starting to look into the possibility of a change over and what I will need to do so I know it's not gonna happen this weekend, just ensuring I am ready and know what I need to change etc even if this isn't for another month. I'll have to look at removing the circulation pump and list my plants and replace some I understand this, it's just that I usually do my weekly 130 litre water change on a saturday evening when the kids are in bed and the co2 has gone off (usually 9.30pm start) this with any filter and pipe work/spray bay maintenance, pruning, glass cleaning together with a C02 leak this past weekend saw me get to bed just gone 4am Sunday morning, I can't be doing with this anymore as I haven't sat down on my sofa and watched tv on a Saturday evening for over a year, i'm losing the love for it... so I either shut it down for good and leave the hobby of move to a low tech set up with less work. Hope you good peaple can help me.

I have a few questions if that's ok.

Lighting - my existing lighting is 2 x 39 w T5 tubes within the tank's lighting unit, with it being 260 litres I calculate this to be 1.14 wpg, I already have the reflectors removed as have been trying to battle BBA. My tank is quite deep in that it is 64cm tall and also has a curved front so it's not been ideal to ensure flow and circulation are optimised, currently have 2 JBL e1501 filters running spray bars from the rear to the front and also have squeazed in a newave circulation pump 1600 lph in between the spraybars, also facing frontwards. If I went low tech, without changing the light fittings would I be better off using a lower wattage T5 such as 2 x 21 watt T5 available from Lampspecs which are the corect lenght for fitting into my light unit? I calc this to be approx 0.61 wpg, or is this a tad too low bearing in mid the depth of water? T8 bulbs won't fit my light unit and I don't really want to be splashing out on new lights just at the moment, so LED tiles are out for the moment.

My substrate is akadama clay, I presume I can retain this? there are some osmocote slow release ferts somewhere within this base, would I need to find these and remove them?

Would I need to gradually cut down on my ferts before ceasing all together or can I go cold turkey and just stop, likewise for the C02? I expect I will have an algal bloom doing this, I'm sure some of you have also been in a similar position and could share some pointers to help me decide, ideally I'd like a smaller more manageable tank, but at the moment I have what I have and either make the most of it or....well, i'd rather carry on with a reduction in work as i't taking up any spare time I have.
Thanks for any help
ta
Clive
 
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I feel your pain. I gave up on large high tech tanks due to the maintenance required and the constant battle to keep things optimum.

Don't worry too much about lighting being too low; I've managed to grow a variety of plants with light from a north-facing window on the other side of the room, albeit very slowly. If anything, you could even use the existing lights with a dense covering of floating plants.

Do some research on using soil as a base layer. These types of tanks with low light are by far the easiest and most foolproof planted tanks you can set up. You can just dig out your current substrate, put a layer of soil at the bottom, then cover it with your existing stuff. The only thing to consider is the type of soil to use, but there is a great deal of information on the subject on this and many other forums. They're pretty much "plant it and leave it" tanks if you put a little consideration into them in the first place. The extra flow won't do them any harm either.

With regards to fertiliser, search "Duckweed index" and go from there. The soil substrate will provide most of what the plants need, but there's no harm in supplementing it.

Chin up :)
 
Hello Clive,

I would first just decrease ferts by 70-80% and leave it for about a month. For me this got rid of the BBA, and staghorn!
You could then gradually turn down the CO2 and see where that takes you. If you can turn it off completely without any major problems that's great, but if you're tempted to leave it on "low" you can still keep the plants happy :)
 
Hello Clive,

I would first just decrease ferts by 70-80% and leave it for about a month. For me this got rid of the BBA, and staghorn!
You could then gradually turn down the CO2 and see where that takes you. If you can turn it off completely without any major problems that's great, but if you're tempted to leave it on "low" you can still keep the plants happy :)

This is a sure-fire way to create an algae farm!
 
I'd just tear it all down and start from scratch using soil as a base substrate. Taking your time to set it up properly from the outset will save you an enormous amount of time and hassle in the future, just like Henry suggests.
Your plants will be fine going cold turkey, sure you'll probably experience some melt but usually new growth keeps apace. As for lighting, a bit of experimentation will probably be needed before you hit upon the winning formula - is it possible to use 1x39w and 1x21w? If not 2x21w would be infinitely preferable, and you have the option of reattaching the reflectors as well if need be.
 
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Well here's a couple of quick snaps, sorry I don't have a better camera but my phones ok, so you can see the tank size. The past 18 months have been a blast and certainly a quick learning curve with all my info gained from ukaps :)
Time is precious with small children in the house so many thanks for all your replies and advice so far, I'm inclined to lean towards stripping it down and putting some dirt of choice in, a chance to rekindle my interest and learn a new approach :)

Troi , I've always admired your smaller tanks and this is also an option, to sell what I have and replace with one or two more manageable sized items. I've enough c02 for the next 2 months so still time to think, read up and decide what's best for a longer term approach to keep my interest, I like shrimp so just maybe a couple of nice matching side by side optiwhite nano tanks will be my bag.
If you can foresee what could be achieved with my 260 bow front, then shout out ideas please, such as removing the huge bogwood cave for example.
If going low tech with dirt and keeping the big tank, I know I'll need to rehome a few fish, a bristlenose who likes digging and a pair of gourami who ate my shrimp:(
If I sold the tank, both jbl filters, jbl reg , splitter and ferts etc this could help towards a pair of nice nano tanks filters and shrimp.
Lots to decide on thanks again
Clive

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Small high techs can be a bum ache too, you know. Granted they're lower volume, but the maintenance schedule is the same, and the potential for algae problems is just as high. You might also miss the presence of a big tank, and the immersive feeling you get when looking into it.

I'd think carefully before selling the equipment you have, as you'll potentially lose around half the value, with no guarantee of success with your smaller tank. Perhaps spend £50 on a cheap Clearseal nano, filter, and light, and transfer your CO2 equipment over to it and see how you get on. Once again, I can't stress enough the benefits of a soil based low-tech tank.
 
I don't see why you couldn't keep the tank and the fish and go low tech. The bristle nose is a nice algae eater and will help iron out any bumps. If you want to go for soil then do, but you don't have to. Plenty of people cope just fine on gravel only. Just lower your light, pop ferts in now and then and swap out any plants that would have a job coping low tech. That would the main thing to decide, what isn't likely to do well low tech, then you can sell them while they are healthy before you switch. Make the changes and put some different ones in.

I don't even mind the wood cave, I just think it needs to swing around slightly and move to one side so it's a little less prominent, maybe some nice stem plants behind to soften it up a bit.
 
Small high techs can be a bum ache too, you know. Granted they're lower volume, but the maintenance schedule is the same, and the potential for algae problems is just as high. You might also miss the presence of a big tank, and the immersive feeling you get when looking into it.

I'd think carefully before selling the equipment you have, as you'll potentially lose around half the value, with no guarantee of success with your smaller tank. Perhaps spend £50 on a cheap Clearseal nano, filter, and light, and transfer your CO2 equipment over to it and see how you get on. Once again, I can't stress enough the benefits of a soil based low-tech tank.

Hi and thanks Henry, I understand you about the smaller high tech tanks not being a definitive success, sorry my intention is to go low, quite low, probably soil based, maybe hob filter, aquaball or similar but more low tech, sitting looking at where the existing tank is, if we had a nice unit I could happily see a pair of 30 l tanks in its place, side by side with say some peace lily's or similar flora sprouting out the open tops.
Much pondering I must sleep now :)

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Don't give up mate. I've been there and nearly gave up and I see many awesome low tech tanks. At the moment I don't focus on getting crazy plants but just on plants that grow in my setting...I think you don't need novelty plants to make a nice looking tank anymore, just green that looks healthy.
Hang in there....
 
If keeping up maintenance is the issue I would go low tech.

Soil at the bottom an inch thick capped with sand up to the sane depth

Use some root feeders, such as crypts, swords. Some stems, such as hygro sp and some floaters such as frogbit. Plant very very heavily from the outset.

Re-use your existing filter media so the tank settles quickly but be aware you may have to increase your maintenance for the first few weeks, would recommend considering 50% daily scale week one, every other day week two, twice in week 3 and a 75% change in week 4, with frequent testing for ammonia. Use this as a plan to start with but Flex this as appropriate, you may need less. You will likely not need to dose ferts, but your frogbit will tell you that anyway by its condition.

After that, only occasionally water changes or top ups. Feed fish well, twice a day, allow the excess mulm to feed the plants
 
Hey Clive,
i went from high tech to low tech a few weeks ago when my CO2 ran out unexpectedly (i use 10kg bottles and couldn't get one fast).
I hiked my lights up (in your case remove one) added floaters to block more light, and halved my feeding regime. Gradually my tank is getting better and better. I was Always battling BBA, it is gradually getting less and less. Plantgrowth has slowed, but the leaves are healthy so i have no worries.
Try it, i would say.
 
Hey Clive,
i went from high tech to low tech a few weeks ago when my CO2 ran out unexpectedly (i use 10kg bottles and couldn't get one fast).
I hiked my lights up (in your case remove one) added floaters to block more light, and halved my feeding regime. Gradually my tank is getting better and better. I was Always battling BBA, it is gradually getting less and less. Plantgrowth has slowed, but the leaves are healthy so i have no worries.
Try it, i would say.

Hi Edvet,

I definately decided on a low tech approach.

I should use the existing tank and filters and not get carried away with additional shrimp nano's, this can be another project for another time.

So, I need to check my light unit tonight to see if it will still work with a single tube, if not I will order a pair of the Sylvania T5 21 Watt tubes 849mm from Lampspecs as they are only £2.76 inc vat!! I can add back my reflectors if need be or even mix my tubes with one of each 39 Watt and 21 watt to give me some flexibility with the lighting until I find the sweet spot.

I'm really tempted to strip down and go with a soil based approach, I need to read up more on this and see what soil to use, I know Alastair has used the original aquatic soil I think if I remember correctly, I would most likely then top this with my existing akadama and plant, the bristlenose while yes I agree is a nice addition to the tank and does munch away on algae will dig deeply, obvioulsy with a soil base layer this will be a right mess so he'll most likely be re homed locally, I actuallty do have the following 2 weeks off work at home so it would be ideal time for me to tackle this tank, I need to order the tubes and decide on my soil choice.

I'm planning to continue to use the same two filters and media, I'll follow the water change cycle of the initial 4-6 weeks too, i'm just looking forward to a long term tank I can enjoy without the necessity of 4 hours maintenance each saturday night, without the C02 I can also do any maintenance during the daytime as previously I have waited until the C02 had finished it's on period for the day.

Thanks
Clive
 
+1 on the soil substrate. Just use plain top soil from the garden centre that has no chemicals or manure and such added. 1 inch soil and a cap of your choice. I've used two types of garden soils with no problem but can't recall from the top of my head what they are.
Do a few extra and big water changes at the start while the soil settles because of the fish and then maybe small weekly ones. The results even with a bumpy start, are always positive long term.
I would keep the two filters running as they are. I would not change the lights at all. Removing the reflectors is fine, lower the spraybars a bit, or at least one of them so you can put floaters like frogbit and salvinia and use that at the start to block light leaving them to cover 2/3rds and also as someone mentioned as an indication of ferts regime. However, do not leave the surface completely still, especially at the start as while the organics in the soil are breaking down the tank needs lots of oxygen to do so.
I'd start from around 7hrs a day light with lots of floaters which should overgrow in a weak time, make sure to remove all algae ridden plants from the previous setup so you start clean. Monitor daily at the start, if any algae of any sort appears, lower the light duration, if not, leave it and see if you want experimenting to increase it to 8 max depending on plant mass. Have some slow growers/heavy rooters like echnidorus and cryps and have fast growers like stems as well at least at the start because the soil will be rich and you need something mopping all available stuff fast. After everything grows in in 2-3 months, you can remove the fast growers as they can overtake the tank and are high maintenance depending on the plant type.
I am so far moving into the 2nd year bracket with 2 of my soil tanks and its a breeze to keep them and plants are growing healthy without any messing, no algae, no cleaning the glass and I trim/prune whenever I feel like though if left it for a couple of months or more it does get very overgrown so I just snip stuff here and there when I think of it. So far I've only needed to add potassium nitrate and nothing else but I do weekly water changes and have a ton of emersed tropical plants but I only add 4-5ppm weekly, that's it, to stop it going down to 0 and I only started that after the first year as the emersed plants became huge mopping the natural ferts too fast. My other tank doesn't need any ferts.
The pleco and your other fish should be no bother. My bristlenose used to be a digger in another tank but he has not dug into the soil in his current tank for the last year and a half. He'd appreciate the driftwood to stay in the tank though :)

Good luck.
 
:):)What a fantastic reply Sciencefiction

Thanks for this, most helpful, I actually have an unopened bag of Homebase top soil at home, would mineralizing this for a month prior to going into the tank give me less issues with transferring the fish back in, my thinking that if so, once it has been mineralized I can strip the tank down, add the mineralized soil, add back my akadama as a cap, plant and add my fish back very quickly and also my filters should be good to go still if not disturbed, I could do all this in a couple of hours hopefully and in the meantime my tank can run as it is as I have plenty of Co2 to keep me going for a good while, I will need to make a shopping list for lights plants etc, never used floaters before, as my tank has it's own lighting unit which is fitted close to the water's surface (I can't raise it) would this be ok for the floating plants being so close to the light?
One more quick question, after reading Troi's detailed instructions on setting up a soil based tank, I could use some of the soil retainer mesh which would hopefully negate any mess if the Pleco decided to continue digging.
looks like my supply of ei salts may last me a very long time now
Cheers
 
would mineralizing this for a month prior to going into the tank give me less issues with transferring the fish back in,

Yes, if mineralized you should have no issues adding the fish straight in. I got no spikes with mineralized soil and I prefer to mineralize the soil.
As for the mesh retainer, I remember discussing this with Troi in some other thread and I am personally against it but he says its fine too. I don't use that, I see no reason why at all honestly.[DOUBLEPOST=1407852014][/DOUBLEPOST]By the way, mineralized soil doesn't make the same big mess as unmineralized one. It also won't float because the process of mineralizing removes the easy floating particles. When I mineralize, I soak, let is settle for a while, then pour out all stuff that is still floating, then I dry, then soak again, pour all floating stuff, etc... What you are left with settles in no time even if disturbed, unless you dig up the entire tank of course and even then it clears. Also I reckon there's less/ no algae issues when the soil is mineralized but you lose some soil while mineralizing it like that.
 
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Cool, sounds like a plan to me, I can think about plants and layout in the meantime, lower wattage t5's ordered today so ball rolling now;)

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It sounds like a good plan to me.

my tank has it's own lighting unit which is fitted close to the water's surface (I can't raise it) would this be ok for the floating plants being so close to the light?

You have to try and see, depends how strong the light is. Fluorescents aren't a problem but my LEDs can burn plants. If you are downgrading the light tubes then you may not need that much floaters but they are very helpful upon initial setup and I wouldn't skip them. The only issue with them is getting wet on the top leaves either from being submerged from the surface movement or condensation as they don't like it and will die eventually like that.
And overgrown low tech tank can take a lot of light. Issue with light is when the tank is half empty, not fully planted or grown and light is blazing strong but when the plants start overgrowing the tank, reaching the surface, overshadowing each other, floaters not removed promptly(remember...low maintenance :)...some of us forget to prune lol) then it can take a lot of light and some shadowed plants actually suffer if one can't actually experiment with the light a bit. You go too low, and some plants can't grow properly. Obviously if you go too high and algae can appear. One just needs common sense and closely monitor the plants and glass for any minimal algae signs, but don't be afraid of light in a low tech as all plants need light and there's is a bottom limit too to actually grow some more light demanding plants in a low tech so I'd take this in mind when choosing plant position. The soil provides the co2 for the plants as the organics break down, which organics are replaced via fish food and poop. The plants may go through melting, adjustment period etc...but they will adapt in a few weeks during which period you need at least some healthy fast growers and floaters. Your good filtration and flow will spread the co2 produced around and is a very good thing even in a low tech tank.
 
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