What am I doing wrong, everything dying

[ceg4048]

depends on wat type of plants u r growing in the first place ..

No, it doesn't. This is completely false. I don't have any trouble growing HC with any kind of light, high or low, blue, red or green.

Under low light, HC simply grows more slowly. More light causes HC and everything else to grow faster, including algae.

The OP clearly has a CO2 issue and this is exacerbated by poor flow/distribution. Fix these issues first and the problems will go away.

Adding high light without fixing the fundamental requirement of CO2/flow/distribution will only result in high algae.

Cheers,

 

[Andy T]

goin off the post u quoted me on dude ...if you placed a full sun plant in total shade in your outdoor garden? If it survived at all, it would not reach its full potential. The same thing is true of aquarium plants. As stated above, lighting will dictate whether you can grow shade or sun plants. In aquatics, plants are classified as low, moderate or high light which roughly translates to full shade, partial shade/partial sun or full sun. The subject of lighting is quite vast with all the available options on the market.......for the development of plants and flowering its the lights.

 

[ceg4048]

goin off the post u quoted me on dude ...if you placed a full sun plant in total shade in your outdoor garden? If it survived at all, it would not reach its full potential. The same thing is true of aquarium plants.

No it is not the same thing for aquarium plants. As we have discovered, the limiting factor for plant health and growth in aquariums was, is, and always will be CO2.

When a plant in high light is moved to a shaded area the leaves will change their configuration and adapt to the shade. They will grow as shade plants - slowly. You should not confuse rate of growth with health. These are two entirely different issues.

This is specifically why folks continue to suffer algal blooms and poor plant health. Curb your appetite for massive lighting, pay attention to CO2/flow/distribution and you can achieve an algae free tank with beautiful plants. It will simply take more time, that's all...

Cheers,

 

[Chris Jackson]

Ok I'll join in to side with the "the don't fret about the light theme" the more light you have the more CO2 will be an issue. Try reading this http://www.barrreport.com/showthread.php/6166-Methods-algae-control-or-growing-plants and then re-reading it and then coming back and reading it again...

I've been running planted tanks successfully for many, many years with relatively few algae issues until I started my latest tank illuminated only by very bright LED's which has forced me to re-think what I thought I knew.. Believe Ceg4048 and others...

After several weeks of tweaking I'm finally getting things back on track by...sorting out the CO2 and adjusting light levels and ferts... I was very resistant to ditching my lily pipe in favour of a spray bar, after all if a lily pipe is good enough for Amano then it should be good enough for me right? Well maybe but having now fitted a spray bar along the back of the tank that's directing flow down the front I am fully converted. I can readily see how much better this is by observing the flow of bubbles from the plants. Secondly I've swapped out my atomiser for a reactor and whilst the PH profile through the day is the same (as measured with a high quality calibrated probe) the actual effect on the plants seems to be much improved.

To help you get things back on track I suggest you add some fresh healthy fast growing plants such as Hygrophila Polysperma asap, improve co2 and distribution, set things up so that the the photoperiod is, less light, more light, less light, and then focus on keeping things stable in terms of water parameters. Endlessly fluctuating, ferts, light, ph, kh etc. only seems to favour algae rather than plants...

 

[Andy T]

ceg ...if u move ludwigia red into the shade the leaves become brownish and dull red , polysperma pink leaves will go back greenish instead of bright pink .myriophyllum mattogrossence red u got no chance with low light or shade,Limnophila aromatica will not look its full potential these r just afew tht need suffiencent lights directly over the top .. take alook at dutch planted tanks u got no chance with low light growing the plants and yes agree wiith chris balance of the tank co2 lights ferts , and flow which i already stated keeps algaes at bay ..

 

[Michael W]

I think instead of classing aquarium plants as low lights - high light plants wen ought to class them as plants which require low to high CO2 concentrations. Most aquarium plants are also semi terrestrial/bog plants so they will receive and probably need high concentration of CO2 in our aquarium than true aquatic plants such as Vallis.

I'm not good with science but I do believe the red colouration and pink that we can sometimes see in our plants are due to the plants producing pigments to protect themselves from the lights, in which case one can argue that in order to see this colouration one must put the plants in stress. I wouldn't go ahead and say that is the plant's true potential to be honest if the process in which it gains that colour involves stress.

 

[Downhillmonkey]

OK folks. Tank completely gutted. I've done the following.

Akadama substrate with sprinkle of osmacote on the bottom. Sand gone and I'm glad to see the back of it.

New plants and recovered what I could of the old.

Co2 running two hours before lights on. Drop checker is green to light green when lights come on. Off one and half hours before lights off, drop checker moving towards yellow.

Surface agitation from filter return.

Lights on 6 hours and raised slightly.

So far pH is 7.1 first thing before injection. Averages 6.4 after a good few hours of injection.

Ferts automatically pumped 40ml of each (alternate days).

Kh reduced to 7. TDS 320 (dropped from 510).

Co2 reactor on order.

Hopefully this will help resolve the problem.

 

[ian_m]

I think instead of classing aquarium plants as low lights - high light plants wen ought to class them as plants which require low to high CO2 concentrations

No no no no....wrong matrix thinking. All plants require light and CO2 (and nutrients), end of no argument there. It's just that most plants grow quicker when they have access to more light and corresponding levels of CO2. There are plenty of people here who have successfully grown what some people falsely classify as hard to grow "high light" & "high CO2" plants in low light and low CO2, they just grow slowly.

 

[Michael W]

I stand corrected.

 

[EnderUK]

OK folks. Tank completely gutted. I've done the following.

Akadama substrate with sprinkle of osmacote on the bottom. Sand gone and I'm glad to see the back of it.

New plants and recovered what I could of the old.

Co2 running two hours before lights on. Drop checker is green to light green when lights come on. Off one and half hours before lights off, drop checker moving towards yellow.

Surface agitation from filter return.

Lights on 6 hours and raised slightly.

So far pH is 7.1 first thing before injection. Averages 6.4 after a good few hours of injection.

Ferts automatically pumped 40ml of each (alternate days).

Kh reduced to 7. TDS 320 (dropped from 510).

Co2 reactor on order.

Hopefully this will help resolve the problem.

Good work, still trying to increase the CO2 more slowly over the the next few days might get a higher injection rate. You don't need the full 1 pH drop if your light PAR is low enough but then it's all a bit of guess work and trail and error. Hopefully you'll have some improvement.

 

[Downhillmonkey]

Thanks

The tank isn't as heavily planted as I would have liked as funds ran out. So I'm reliant on new growth.

I'll fiddle with the co2 a little more once the reactor arrives. Not a fan of the 7up look.

 

[Downhillmonkey]

Just a quick update.

Following on from the complete strip down I have done the following.

Sera 1000 reactor fitted to an old Ehiem 2217 (empty) with APS inline pre filter. This has increased flow and negated the 7up look. So far I'm impressed.
Positioned inlets in each corner, with outlets and wave maker creating a whirlpool type flow around the tank. All plants are swaying.
Root tabs added to support plants. Ei dosing as normal.
Surface agitation strong, almost breaking the water.
New plants added.
Co2 REDUCED as I discovered that my resting PH was actually 7.8, which is miles away from my original post of 7.1 (defo a glitch in the matrix). I'm now very close to a 1 point drop with co2 injected 2 hours before lights on and 2 hours before lights off. A little more tinkering will hopefully hit that sweet spot.
I run an air pump during the night time, which has had a huge impact on the fish, who are much more alert and appear happy for a change. Shuts off a few hours before co2. Probably not necessary, but the fish are happy so I'm happy.
Bristle nose plecs given to LFS for re-homing due to their ability to destroy everything green and poo hosepipes.
Lights reduced to 6 hours.

So far, I am algae free and the water is spotless. It's early days yet and plants haven't really shown any signs of growth or damage.
I'm not a fan of the orange look from the akadama, which is also very light and easily disturbed. But hopefully this will age over time and soak up the nutrients required.
Once the 'currently empty' fish funds restock I will look at a suitable ground cover. I did try hair grass, but the fish just pulled it up and planting in the akadama was troublesome. No doubt I'll be asking some advice on a bulletproof carpeting plant soon, if one exists!

Finally, I'd just like to add that if this doesn't work I'll probably be divorced, as I've spent the last few weeks with my hands in the tank. The wife now thinks I have OCD and cant understand why I've put in so much time, money and effort for a few plants!

Thanks again for all the advice.