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Gourami Gloaming #4
- Thread starter Lindy
- Start date
Lindy
Member
After almost a year of trying to get some I finally have chocolate gourami! I am in love with them already. They arrived this morn in an enormous polybox. Unfortunately the heat pack had run out of o2 and the box was really cold inside. Note to people posting fish or shrimp - if it is an air tight box poke a couple of small holes in it or the heat pack won't work! The heat pad warmed up nicely once out of the box..
. The fish water was 15 degrees . Acclimatised the fish over a couple of hrs and they recovered nicely.
I could watch them all day........................
Please forgive the low quality video as the light is set low at the moment.
They are feeding on bbs in the clip.
. The fish water was 15 degrees . Acclimatised the fish over a couple of hrs and they recovered nicely.I could watch them all day........................
Please forgive the low quality video as the light is set low at the moment.
They are feeding on bbs in the clip.
Lindy
Member
Thanks, be nicer once the plants fill in a bit.
They look awesome!
I've thoroughly enjoyed your tank journal.
Any idea on locale or transhipper?
I picked some up recently when a local shop brought in an order ... I chose 8 from the bag lot, fish were rather stressed so really just tried for a random assortment (they appear rather smaller than your group). A couple are oddly colored, pale coloration extending into the fins, another is mottled - this remains even after settling into the tank & rest of group is normal coloration; they are active & eating well.
I thought to pick up a couple more when shop still had some remaining several days later, ended up collecting all that were left as they were pretty stressed; fortunately decided to place these in another tank, they are definitely not feeling well: good news is that they are eating, but then often hover with that "pinched tail" thing they do.
I know the shop tank was cold (heater had failed) so I'm hoping it's just external parasites.
If you've any thoughts on treatments, please comment.
I'll try to sort out some photos next week as they are so odd looking!
(these shipped out of Singapore)
I've thoroughly enjoyed your tank journal.
Any idea on locale or transhipper?
I picked some up recently when a local shop brought in an order ... I chose 8 from the bag lot, fish were rather stressed so really just tried for a random assortment (they appear rather smaller than your group). A couple are oddly colored, pale coloration extending into the fins, another is mottled - this remains even after settling into the tank & rest of group is normal coloration; they are active & eating well.
I thought to pick up a couple more when shop still had some remaining several days later, ended up collecting all that were left as they were pretty stressed; fortunately decided to place these in another tank, they are definitely not feeling well: good news is that they are eating, but then often hover with that "pinched tail" thing they do.
I know the shop tank was cold (heater had failed) so I'm hoping it's just external parasites.
If you've any thoughts on treatments, please comment.
I'll try to sort out some photos next week as they are so odd looking!
(these shipped out of Singapore)
Lindy
Member
Alto I've no idea where these guys came from. I bought from Kesgrave tropicals as they were the only folk that had any coming in and would post. The only thing I can suggest is nice soft, acidic water with some blackwater extract or catappa leaves to help them recover. I'm not sure what effect of long exposure to cold water would be other than eventual death so hopefully you got them in time.
They were getting much worse yesterday so I made a decision: did a large water change & started formalin at ~10mg/l, no signs of stress over an hour, so bumped it to 20mg/l overnight (morning here) ... 6 of the 9 are looking MUCH better.
How do you like your tea extract, I can easily get lots of tea, blackwater extract/leafs, not so much, tap is soft, pH ~6
How do you like your tea extract, I can easily get lots of tea, blackwater extract/leafs, not so much, tap is soft, pH ~6
Lindy
Member
I use the redbush 'tick tock' tea bags.
Lindy
Member
This version of the tank has been running for just over 6 weeks and has seen some steady growth although i only really notice because i can compare pics on this journal.
I've taken out some of the java fern right and left side and added Limnophila sessiliflora as this has been found where choccos have been caught. It's not a strict biotope but if something is easily come by that exists in their environment then why not.
Hard not to include one of these.
L. Sessiliflora been trimmed once and replanted.
Crypts all throwing out new leaves. Still not sure what half of them are.
I've taken out some of the java fern right and left side and added Limnophila sessiliflora as this has been found where choccos have been caught. It's not a strict biotope but if something is easily come by that exists in their environment then why not.
Hard not to include one of these.
L. Sessiliflora been trimmed once and replanted.
Crypts all throwing out new leaves. Still not sure what half of them are.
kirk
Member
Looking good lindy, I love the way it all twists and windes over the path, you've created a good illusion of depth.
Lindy
Member
Thanks Kirk although i may have cheated a bit as it is a deeper than average tank. Usually after a week or two i'm thinking 'i wish i'd done this or that' but totally happy with this.
Lindy
Just read the journal, you've had an interesting journey here. Tank looks great I am in the middle of researching a rescape for my tank and you've thrown cat amongst pigeons with the root, the sand at the gourami......are the chocos shrimp safe? really like them.
Rich
Just read the journal, you've had an interesting journey here. Tank looks great I am in the middle of researching a rescape for my tank and you've thrown cat amongst pigeons with the root, the sand at the gourami......are the chocos shrimp safe? really like them.
Rich
Lindy
Member
I think they would take shrimplets as from what I've seen they are thorough when looking for food! The person to ask is Alistair but i do remember he had shrimp in his chocolate puddle. Their mouths are really tiny....
Lindy
Member
Everything was going great and then i bought 7 corydoras sterbai from p@h. A shocking 5 died over night. No idea why. Ottos and choccos were fine. Then the choccos started dropping like flies for no visible reason. I only have 2 left and they have been moved into one of the paro tanks. The remaining 2 sterbai seem fine and the ottos are business as usual.
I had noticed the ph creeping up and have put it down to the coarse sand. Took the tough decision to remove all the coarse sand and replace with more fine sand. This is where i was very grateful i'd separated the soil from sand by filter floss sheets. I just had to syphon out the coarse stuff and the put in the fine stuff. Still took a couple of hrs...
This is how it looked with the coarse sand removed. Most plants had rooted well into the floss sheet.
Now I'll monitor the ph to see if it rises from the desired level. If it does i will have to accept that it must be the pond soil raising ph and give up on my blackwater tank.
I had noticed the ph creeping up and have put it down to the coarse sand. Took the tough decision to remove all the coarse sand and replace with more fine sand. This is where i was very grateful i'd separated the soil from sand by filter floss sheets. I just had to syphon out the coarse stuff and the put in the fine stuff. Still took a couple of hrs...
This is how it looked with the coarse sand removed. Most plants had rooted well into the floss sheet.
Now I'll monitor the ph to see if it rises from the desired level. If it does i will have to accept that it must be the pond soil raising ph and give up on my blackwater tank.
kirk
Member
Oh no!! Sorry to hear this I was just about to say how well your crypts look too.
So sorry to read this 
Apologies in advance for the following - I'd've sent via pm but I cant seem to find that feature - I can edit it out if you'd prefer.
It could be "columnaris" - there is a form that overwhelms the gills before you see any outward signs, fish die rapidly as you witnessed.
There's not much you can do but offer supportive care, ie excellent water quality, maximized oxygen levels, very dim lighting, minimize external stressors (eg, vibration, fast/quick movements near the tank), feed sparingly with foods such as daphia & brine shrimp (rather than bloodworms or other "richer" foods) ...
after a couple weeks with no more new deaths, you might feed an antibiotic-laced food (as always this is controversial, make sure you choose an antibiotic that has actually been shown to have efficacy in living fish in aquaria, eg kanamycin, neomycin sulfate, sulfathiazole are all relatively palatable & broad spectrum enough to be supportive: note this is not about treating residual columnaris but suppressing other secondary bacterial counts) for 3-5 days, then 2 weeks off, then antiparasitic-laced food (levamisol gets my vote, metronidazole is a poor second, again this is about reducing numbers of opportunistic parasites which have increased while fish were stressed) for 5-7 days.
Again choosing to treat/not-treat is 6 of one vs half a dozen of the other ... I generally avoid antibiotics as they also upset "beneficial" bacterial populations, levamisol is a very effective antiparasitic while also considered to have immune "boosting" effects (as a bath it's stressful - as are most medicated baths).
But there are some external parasites that still respond better to formalin than any other medication (but it needs to be fresh & stored properly & dosed appropriately & care is always needed to maximize oxygen levels & daily water changes. Note that every bath medication affects the filter bacteria to some degree).
I keep a second planted tank that I run as a quarantine type tank, it's no where near as "clean" as a bare tank, but fish are much less stressed & in fish, stress is strongly immunosuppressive.
A quarantine time of minimum 2 weeks & preferably 4 weeks is recommended.
It's also recommended to add some of your main tank fish into the Q-tank for 2 weeks before finally introducing all the "new" fish into your main tank.
Most of the time, impulsively adding fish works out just fine.
Apologies in advance for the following - I'd've sent via pm but I cant seem to find that feature - I can edit it out if you'd prefer.
It could be "columnaris" - there is a form that overwhelms the gills before you see any outward signs, fish die rapidly as you witnessed.
There's not much you can do but offer supportive care, ie excellent water quality, maximized oxygen levels, very dim lighting, minimize external stressors (eg, vibration, fast/quick movements near the tank), feed sparingly with foods such as daphia & brine shrimp (rather than bloodworms or other "richer" foods) ...
after a couple weeks with no more new deaths, you might feed an antibiotic-laced food (as always this is controversial, make sure you choose an antibiotic that has actually been shown to have efficacy in living fish in aquaria, eg kanamycin, neomycin sulfate, sulfathiazole are all relatively palatable & broad spectrum enough to be supportive: note this is not about treating residual columnaris but suppressing other secondary bacterial counts) for 3-5 days, then 2 weeks off, then antiparasitic-laced food (levamisol gets my vote, metronidazole is a poor second, again this is about reducing numbers of opportunistic parasites which have increased while fish were stressed) for 5-7 days.
Again choosing to treat/not-treat is 6 of one vs half a dozen of the other ... I generally avoid antibiotics as they also upset "beneficial" bacterial populations, levamisol is a very effective antiparasitic while also considered to have immune "boosting" effects (as a bath it's stressful - as are most medicated baths).
But there are some external parasites that still respond better to formalin than any other medication (but it needs to be fresh & stored properly & dosed appropriately & care is always needed to maximize oxygen levels & daily water changes. Note that every bath medication affects the filter bacteria to some degree).
I keep a second planted tank that I run as a quarantine type tank, it's no where near as "clean" as a bare tank, but fish are much less stressed & in fish, stress is strongly immunosuppressive.
A quarantine time of minimum 2 weeks & preferably 4 weeks is recommended.
It's also recommended to add some of your main tank fish into the Q-tank for 2 weeks before finally introducing all the "new" fish into your main tank.
Most of the time, impulsively adding fish works out just fine.
Lift, so sorry to hear, does sound like the corydoras brought something in though, steady changes in ph over time are normally ok, crashes in ph not normally good. Choccos are known to survive in ph 7 aren't they just not breed or be at their best.....
Lindy
Member
The tank has cleared, ph set to desired level and now I'm monitoring it for changes.
Alexander Belchenko
Member
Do you know what brand the coarse sand is? It looks similar to one I know for similar problems. re water parameters.
Lindy
Member
The coarse sand was Unipac but can't remember which name of sand.
I wouldn't like to test this theory and the highest ph they would have been exposed to with me was 6ish. I can only think that the way they arrived at 15 degrees probably stressed them more than they showed and me adding fish that must have been sick exposed weakened fish to disease. On a happy note the 2 surviving corys seem to be happy wee things and I would look to add to their group at some time but will quarantine any future purchases from P@H. If my ph remains stable I may get some Valliant Gourami as Colin Dunlop is expecting some on his next shipment. I would also love to put a big group of paros in as well. If the ph wants to keep rising I will give up on the black water, as not stripping out the pond soil, and get some Channa Bleheri.
