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BBA fight: please help me to pin point the cause.

fablau

Member
Joined
1 Jan 2015
Messages
156
Location
Laguna Niguel, California (USA)
Hello everyone, I have been having some BBA on my slow growing plants such as Anubias, Microswords and even some of my Vals, and I have tried everything without success. I know that BBA can be mostly caused by Co2 not being right (fluctuations, not enough, etc.) but unless I am missing something, my Co2 should be ok, therefore I don't know what else do to fix the problem.

Here is my current setup and details:

- 75gl tank with wet/dry filter, 2000 l/h main pump

- Co2 pressurized injection via needle wheel pump and reactor (AM 1000), 1.3 minimum PH drop (70ml Co2 per minute)

- light: 7 hours a day (from 2pm to 9pm) with 120w running for the whole 7 hours photoperiod, and additional 40w tube running for just 4 hours from 4pm to 8pm

- EI fertilization with water change every 2 weeks.

- tank is heavily planted (see picture below) and plants thrive well (despite something must be wrong otherwise I wouldn't have BBA around!)

Here is what I have tried and didn't change a thing:

- increased circulation with a different pump running at 3000 l/h, but I saw no benefit... Instead my Java moss suffered a bit because of too high current (tried for 3 months in a row)

- increased Co2 amount a big deal to have almost 1.8 PH drop (fish were ok because having a wet/dry filter O2 is high)

Here is a pic of my tank:

ed7eacffc1e2420df6ca86590d347f45.jpg


And here is my current Co2 curve recorded with my Apex controller, co2 starts 4 hours before photoperiod and shuts down one hour before end:

c247de7ceab65bc403778ea43d97846b.jpg


Please, let me know if you see anything wrong in what I am doing that can cause BBA because I am pretty desperate.

Thanks in advance to anyone!

Fab.
 
Cant see anything wrong really.

Where is the BBA?
Is it growing?

Im guessing if there is anything slightly off that would be flow but Im not sure. Its a tall tank and maybe flow at the bottom isnt great.
 
Hi all

My current setup is also crowded of plants. I am now beginning to close the tank (selling plants, fishing critters, etc.) and you don't notice how much dirt (decaying leaves and others) you can have until you dismantle a tank. I considered my tank was super clean (2x50% weekly WC, light shyponing, violent plant shacking during WC, etc.) but after + 2 years, with such an amount of plants and difficult access to some parts, I bet you have much more organic than you think. Maybe not that important in low tech tanks but critical IME when playing hard

Jordi
 
Tank looks awesome, I'm jealous!. Your CO2 drop seems great. You can still reduce the light however. I'm sure that more light = more BBA and algae in general.

P
 
I have been looking at your picture ( great tank :thumbup: ) for a minute but could not see any bba...

(Edit: 5 minutes)
 
Cant see anything wrong really.

Where is the BBA?
Is it growing?

Im guessing if there is anything slightly off that would be flow but Im not sure. Its a tall tank and maybe flow at the bottom isnt great.

BBA is on slow growers, here is a couple of pics of some Anubia leaves:

2cd84675ea2fa79fa509496ba42a8f54.jpg


464372d05f3c4dcf35a32a5a773505f1.jpg


cb17c37dc9510492d6d7b570e828a694.jpg


And some leaves of Microswords:

e1fd92e83d6a3eb1de8ba67ab1eb3a13.jpg


Tanks is not tall, it is a standard 48" x 18" x 21" (high) tank. Flow looks ok, I see plants moving, and I can tell you, I notice more BBA where flow is strongest (!!)
 
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Hi all

My current setup is also crowded of plants. I am now beginning to close the tank (selling plants, fishing critters, etc.) and you don't notice how much dirt (decaying leaves and others) you can have until you dismantle a tank. I considered my tank was super clean (2x50% weekly WC, light shyponing, violent plant shacking during WC, etc.) but after + 2 years, with such an amount of plants and difficult access to some parts, I bet you have much more organic than you think. Maybe not that important in low tech tanks but critical IME when playing hard

Jordi

My tank is 5 years old... I can't believe that may be the source of the problem...!!
 
My tank is 5 years old... I can't believe that may be the source of the problem...!!
In 5 years your substrate can be quite clogged with mulm and BBA bits (vegetative or spores). Even your weekly tank husbandry may not be enough for getting rid of this. We all know that low tech tanks can last a lot of years but my guess (never tried more than 2 years) is that high tech tanks are a pain once they 'grow old' unless you really devote a lot of time. My current 60 cm tank was completely re-scaped. Not that much work (just one Sunday morning with your hands wet!) and a good chance for a good siphoning and for cleaning the parts you do not have the chance to reach.
The rest of your parameters seem ok, I don't really believe you have a problem with co2, flow may be a problem but this fast re-scraping may help to fine tune this problem.

Jordi
 
In 5 years your substrate can be quite clogged with mulm and BBA bits (vegetative or spores). Even your weekly tank husbandry may not be enough for getting rid of this. We all know that low tech tanks can last a lot of years but my guess (never tried more than 2 years) is that high tech tanks are a pain once they 'grow old' unless you really devote a lot of time. My current 60 cm tank was completely re-scaped. Not that much work (just one Sunday morning with your hands wet!) and a good chance for a good siphoning and for cleaning the parts you do not have the chance to reach.
The rest of your parameters seem ok, I don't really believe you have a problem with co2, flow may be a problem but this fast re-scraping may help to fine tune this problem.

Jordi


Wow, would be amazing if the only cause could be the "too old tank syndrome"... Actually would be less the time to remake the tank from zero than to keep maintaining it by spot-treating, etc!!

I have to think about this a little... Any more thoughts about Co2? Does my curve look ok to you from the time lights turn on to the end of photoperiod?
 
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Is the BBA growing at the moment?. Its possible that something triggered it sometime back. All you can do know is make sure it doesnt grow more and remove all you can by hand. Even if your co2 is top notch right now it doesnt mean it has been like that forever. I think organics might have an impact here but it all depends on if you can stop it from growing.
Also 21 inches high is quite a big distance if you think of co2 microbubbles travelling downwards, not so much for dissolved CO2 if conc is good. dissolved. But again if algae is not growing dont change a thing and just clean it up.
 
BBA is quite good at fooling people to think their co2 is perfect because it can appear weeks after the trigger. So co2 at that time is good, but if you think back, you can trace the event that triggered it.
I cant recommend the following enough: If there is a change in co2 during photoperiod, turn your lights off for the rest of the photoperiod. This would safe the newbies a lot of algae scraping and headaches.
 
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Is the BBA growing at the moment?. Its possible that something triggered it sometime back. All you can do know is make sure it doesnt grow more and remove all you can by hand. Even if your co2 is top notch right now it doesnt mean it has been like that forever. I think organics might have an impact here but it all depends on if you can stop it from growing.
Also 21 inches high is quite a big distance if you think of co2 microbubbles travelling downwards, not so much for dissolved CO2 if conc is good. dissolved. But again if algae is not growing dont change a thing and just clean it up.

Yes Jose, BBA is growing right now. I found new growth of it every day, and I prune my plants every day cutting and tossing affected leaves.

About my tank height: 21 inches if the tank size, the substrate at the bottom is about 4-5 inches thick, and the water surface is about 2 inches from the top, therefore from surface to bottom there are about 14-15 inches. I see clearly Co2 bubbles going everywhere i the tank, bottom included. Diffusion should be ok.

Also, my Co2 setup and schedule has been like this, stable, for a long time, I'd say over a year. Pretty much same PH drop (even though, as I said before, I tried to increase Co2 even further), but never less than this.
 
BBA is quite good at fooling people to think their co2 is perfect because it can appear weeks after the trigger. So co2 at that time is good, but if you think back, you can trace the event that triggered it.
I cant recommend the following enough: If there is a change in co2 during photoperiod, turn your lights off for the rest of the photoperiod. This would safe the newbies a lot of algae scraping and headaches.

Yes, hard to understand, but as I said before, Co2 injection has been pretty stable for the past year, not particular changes. And of course, if Co2 is off (if PH is higher than 6.4), lights turns off or stay off. That's programmed into my Apex :)

I know, everything looks good, that's why this problem makes me crazy! Thank you for your help, appreciated.
 
Well there is something going on. Youre convinced its not co2. Ask yourself honestly what could it be? So many variables.....How much do I trust my pH meter?Is my dosing routine perfect? Maybe too much organics?
All you need to do to proof that its not organics is just to do biweekly water changes, dosing EI right after a water change and see how the algae responds. Of course remove all you can before hand.Also do the water changes after the photoperiod. May want to consider liquid carbon dosing for some time. Or peroxide if you dont have shrimps. Peroxide will help you a bit by oxidizing organics as well.
Also I might have asked you this before but what is the KH in your tank? Unless its quite high it wont make a difference.
 
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