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Downoi (Pogostemon helferi) Problem...

Roman B

Member
Joined
15 Sep 2015
Messages
30
Hello there!
My first post here...

Need some help and advice with my Downoi plants.
I bought 5 small ones in a pot. They grow kinda OK'ish, but older leaves getting brownish and look weak and unhealthy. After big maintenance in my tank I separated all the side shoots on it to a total of 38 (in a two months) and replanted them into a new gravel (JBL Manado). Every new leave looks good and healthy but then they turn to look like others.

Tank: Juwel Rekord 600
Size: 60L
Gravel: JBL Manado and JBL AquaBasis plus
Co2: JBL ProFlora Bio - yeast alike DIY. 12 mg/l as reads drop checker
Fertilisers:Tropica Premium and Specialised (adding 3.2ml weekly)
Seachem Flourish Nitrogen (0.7ml twice a week)- just started with this one.... first week
Fish: 9 Barbs

No3: 20+
No2: 0
GH: 8
KH: 6
PH: 7.5

Light: 2x 15w T8 (Hagen Aqua-Glo and Sun-Glo)

Also would like to mention that Im new into this. just a two months +
And would like to say sorry if it's hard to read what I type as my English isn't perfect :)

BTW: Pressurized co2 system with solenoid for sodastream setup already on its way...
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or is it some sort of brown algae bloom on top of the leaves ?
they look like dust covered and today I see small brownish hair on them

IMG_0863_1.jpg
 
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You tank is 60l which is 15US Gallons, so with 30W light that's 2W/gallon placing your tank nicely in high light, high tech category, so spot on sources of carbon and fertilisers will be required. You will not easily get good CO2 from yeast based systems, some people have, but most fail. I see you are getting a pressurised CO2 system to cure that.

Your two fertilisers do not provide any carbon source, Specialised is N + P only and Premium just macros. Also they will not supply enough fertiliser for running at this light level not enough fertiliser. You will probably need at least the weekly dose (5 squirts) every day or every other of day. As it says in the Tropica instructions "Suitable for aquariums with few or slow-growing plants and many fish", your tank with that light level is not slow growing !!!

Basically your plants are dying due to the high light level and not having enough carbon and/or fertiliser, thus leaching organics into the water, which feeds diatoms/algae.

You need to reduce your light level by 1/2 - 1/4, either one tube or foils rings around the tube or sheet of blocking plastic and reduce light to 4-6 on only, until you get your carbon source (could be liquid carbon instead) and fertiliser levels sorted.

As to removing algae that's there, remove hardscape and brush clean, remove the affected leaves and do frequent water changes.

Hopefully this will keep algae at bay or stop the diatoms/algae until you get you CO2 system sorted out along with increased fertiliser levels (maybe 5 squirts a day ???).

Once CO2 is sorted in both levels (green drop checker) and distribution (green drop checker everywhere) then starting increasing light levels and duration and hopefully you won't see your algae reappring.
 
Thank you Ian for your reply!

I also ordered EasyCarbo and AlgExit from EasyLife. Also Seachem Flourish Phosphorus and Potassium.
Hope to get all of this next week along with my CO2 system.

As for Tropica fertilisers ... wont I overdose with 5 pumps a day ?

Hardscape been cleaned week ago with gravel change along with glass cleaning and filter maintenance. As I see only downoi affected with diatoms and nothing else...it were before .. but started to progress after re-scaping were done to my tank.

I have reflectors on my T8 bulbs ... removing them should be enough to reduce my light or should I turn one bulb off? They are different... one is 4200k and other is 18000k

Thanks again I really appreciate your help
 

Rather don't use that. :) Tho Easy Life states its harmless to plants i red many articles with complains about plants dying next to the algae. It's a gamble using it.. One you might regret. EasyCarbo already kills and prevents lots of algae and even some plants don't like it, mostly the truly aquatics aren't very font of liquid carbon products.

Downoi is a rather sensitive and difficult plant many (even experienced) people have problems with. In my tank they died all the same way as you describe, rather looks like melting than diatoms causing it. Tried about everything i could moving it, up, down, front, back, left and right, roottabs, emersed, submersed, nothing helped. But 1 Little plantled survived, actualy doesn't want to die and doesn't want to grow it still the same size as it was 4 months ago. I realy have no idea why, all other plant spieces do very well. Only reasonable thing i changed is upping the light intensity a bit. Someone said it maybe likes higher GH and mine is rather low. :) I'm not going to up the GH just for 1 plant in my tank. If little star doesn't want to shine in my tank i say bey bey downoi.

I hope you get it fixed, i'm realy curious about it.. :)
 
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For me it doest look like they are melting ... they turning bit brownish like dust covered.
Well at least I hope they wont melt ))

Leaves don't die off just the ones what I break during replanting
Produce a lot of side shoots, like I said from 5 to 38 in a month

Hope this just algae/diatoms

Thank you Zozo for your reply, also can you suggest any other algae killer that wont kill my Assassin snails ?
 
also can you suggest any other algae killer that wont kill my Assassin snails

Nope! :) For me there are only 2 algae killers which are not typical algaecides, i've used to spot treat at places where it can do no harm and that's H2o2 and Easy Carbo.. but got some rare and delicate plants and mosses in there which like niether of them and both harm the plants. Also tried high dosing Easy Carbo, max recomended dose 2ml p/50 liter, it works very good, algae dies but also some plants go down with it. So i stoped that after a few days. So sciccors and finding the cause are the next and best option. If the balance in plantmass, stocking, lights, ferts, cleaning and feeding are ok there is no need for 3th party solutions. ;)

Any desperado product carying the name algaecide you can buy as powder or liquid is probably as bad for your plants as is for the algae after all algae are primitive plants. I suggest never to use them.. :)
 
Hardscape been cleaned week ago with gravel change along with glass cleaning and filter maintenance. As I see only downoi affected with diatoms and nothing else...it were before .. but started to progress after re-scaping were done to my tank.

the majority of your tanks (useful) bacteria lives in the filter and on the surfaces in your tank so be careful you don't disturb every area at once, or you could be having much worse problems!
 
the majority of your tanks (useful) bacteria lives in the filter and on the surfaces in your tank so be careful you don't disturb every area at once, or you could be having much worse problems!
Thank you, didn't knew that. as I said Im still new. can I still get a big problems if I use a ''cycled'' water?

And I guess I can confirm now that this is diatoms
I used flashlight with light off and now I can clearly see that my LavaStones are covered too around Downoi

Good news I found 2 tiny about 1.5mm assassin snails that finally hatched... but I have no idea how they survived a maintenance :D but I'm happy
 
Will CAE fish eat diatoms ? or Ottos?
Had Bristlenose catfish before... I guess he did his job before but all my plants were floating :D
 
Well ... just as I were thinking
Bought 2 small SAE's and after an hour they begun to clean my Downoi ...
goona keep posting ... as progress goes, hope not to annoy you guys :D
 
So far so good...
Diatoms going away ))
New leaves looking really nice especially after I got pressurized co2

+ My first try to grow a HC cuba carpet
IMG_0871.jpg
 
Ottos and amano shrimp relish diatoms. Sae are good at everything, I often forget how helpful they are, same they get so big and boisterous.

I would also suggest that you light is more than manageable, 2x t8s would be high light, just nice light. Looks like your going in the right direction, keep it up.

More plants will always help keep a tank nice and stable also ;)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Well....
My plan is to chop off the tops in few weeks and replant them...

There is a lot of side shoots/runners on a stems
I have an idea to keep them when I remove all the leaves and replant them separately into container using a '' emersed" method to propagate it there
when the small ones are strong enough and have their own roots, I'll put them back into the tank

Will this work? have anyone tried before?
Any suggestions ?
 
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Learning about growing plants emersed.
Preparing a box for that, will give it a try with few Downois

Old leaves still looking bad, so will be removing them for sure. New grow still looks nice and green + counted about 35 new side shoots.
Hope growing them emersed will work for me :)
 
Small update on my tank.
Still having problem with Diatoms ... Plus GSA .
SAEs and Ottos doing their job to keep it clean but still noticeable that algae exists in my tank

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Emersed Downois doing great!

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Wow those emersed plants are so healthy.

I've noticed that Downoi needs a prolonged acclimatisation period, reasonable light, good CO2 to grow. I have it growing in high light and medium light setups with fluctuating CO2 etc. Once it takes hold, I think it will start to propogate etc. It is tough once it's established. Ie swinging CO2 etc will be tolerated much easier.
 
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