rebel
Member
- Joined
- 4 Aug 2015
- Messages
- 2,270
Well, my two pennies...or probably several ones.
First of all, forgive by not citing to all the things I am highlighting here from the former conversation, but too many people to cite!
I understand the concern from some members and/or people. I can tell that it is an intrinsic problem from any forum. Not many years ago, I had chances to manage several forums with lot of people, and the same "issues/problems" some people cited here, are exactly the same ones:
Veterans: Meanwhile being veteran in a forum is good, it also has some side effects, not always so good, but unavoidable. People staying for long time in forums have spent lot of time sharing thoughts and experiences with others. This leads unavoidably to affinity between the members, and many times with additional support. This is totally normal being human and social beings. Because of that, veterans tend to be listened more frequently, and attended more frequently than the ones that are more new. In other words: new people have to create their own room in an environment with well established lads, with people that they defend each others just because of they have become friends. This situation in no few occasions creates the sensation that a forum is "elitist", especially when goes to debating or arguing about ideas that the veterans accept as right, despite of being incorrect. But there is always an inertia that it is not always easy to break with new ideas. This is also typical from old forums, as there are these ideas that consolidate within the time and everyone assumes as universal truths. But again, this is normal, and sometimes there is a reason behind why some ideas become lied in stone, even if there is no apparent argument for that.
Consolidated truths: As mentioned above, there is always a tendency in forums to people adopt ideas that become popular in the time. These ideas become in dogmatic things that can be based in real stuff, or just are ideas created by people with better communication skills, or that got a more relevant weight due to external factors. No offence intended, but you will see few people trying to convince Tom Barr, George Farmer or Clive (for example) that their arguments are wrong. They are heavily experienced people that have showed lot of success in this hobby for many years, which has made of them a sort of reference. However, that does not mean that they are always right, or that the arguments they have traditionally offered are correct. In an open forum as this one, debate is the important point because it is the debate which forces people to improve knowledge, go deeper in the reason behind the things, and essentially, what creates progress! The day everyone sticks to what some guys say, that day the forum will stop to create new ideas, face new problems, and try to get new and better solutions. So my view here is: if you become in a reference, be ready to face all the arguments with good mood! Otherwise, you have to keep an open mind and be ready to learn from new people. I taught at the University for 7 years, and I can tell you that even people considered as "newbies" can offer a point of view that no one considered before. Less experience does not mean that new people cannot express themselves. And if they (we) are wrong, it does not matter! It is a part of the path of learning, and a very important part, by the way. It is much better to express a wrong idea than silence a good one, and in many times the criteria to put one idea in one side or the other depends a lot of the context.
Egos: Well, as mentioned, here there are human beings with different characters. Since shy people that are scared of expressing their own ideas or questions, to very outgoing people with stronger character. These differences are normal, but it does not mean the forum has bullies inside. It is just how people express themselves sometimes. The problem accents when the things are said in posts, instead of directly speaking on live to someone. I perceive that there are some scientists around (I am one, for instance, for the sorrow of some of the readers), and in my experience in research, scientist tend do become debates in something quite hot when they do not agree about some points. But the important is not that the arguments become hot, rather than the discussion never becomes personal and goes around the ideas. At the end, these discussions tend to drift towards the basis behind the phenomena we observe, which brings knowledge to the forum, as well as interesting points of view, links, references, etc. Those events are happening, but they are kept in terms. However, I understand that sometimes these discussions can be frightening, especially because here we will have people from very different backgrounds. But as already said by some of you, it is not point to get upset or fed up. If some discussion bothers you, or you think is not of your interest, just stop following it.
Finding information: It is some times difficult to find something in a forum that has been running for years and with may active members. The search tools usually arr not optimal, and most of users like to have fast access to the information they are looking for. On the other hand, search tools does nor grant you to have access to the thread about a topic with the "most up to date" information. Someone proposed to use more stick posts. This is useful, but in my point of view, that requires to be done in a slightly different point of view. Sticking a post it does not mean is up to date, especially if the post was stuck several years ago. At the same time, normal threads are in many occasions dead lines that do not end in a conclusion about the topic. The best idea in fact is to gather these conclusions in articles that are accessible but blocked to comments. In the forums it is then allowed to open discussion about the articles, and use the community inputs to correct the articles and collect on it the new views that are scientifically sound or well based in experience. In order to avoid the issue of the "egos" or "veterans" ans pointed out above, these articles are just references or aids for people, not "universal truths" and of course, not associated to personal names. As said, just a mere collection of conclusions generated by the whole community with more or less contrasted information if possible. Basically, something someone new can read and apply, written in plain words and trying to be as objective as possible. For instance, an example would be an article explaining each of the most common fertilizing methods applied for the community, with a list of pros and cons, and signed by UKAPS as organization and no by specific people. This way of acting is what brings prestige to a community. This is, of course, just a suggestion from my side, as it is how we work now in may ways in the scientific community, and works quite well. Of course, different points of view are totally allowed.
But beyond those "issues", there are also some "good practises":
1. Not be in a hurry when you ask something in the forum. Best result comes from allowing the community to provide several answers and you taking your decision based in those answers.
2. Not limit yourself to ask. If you ask and you have a reply that you apply, it is good to provide feedback. Did you apply some method to correct algae problem that someone proposed and worked for you? Express it in the thread. Did you try but do not work? Mention it also. Provide as many details as possible in your feedback, so some learning of the experience can be transmitted to the community.
3. People are not infallible. So if you apply advises coming from the community, but you do not get the expected result, do not blame the community. All decisions you take based on the information contained here are at your own risk. If does not work what you did, just try to learn why it did not, and debate this in the community. This is not exact science, so if you apply some method/technique that the community proposed and does not work, it does not mean necessarily that they were wrong! Something that works many times for many people can fail for you, because each tank is different and the amount of variables to consider so big, that it is really difficult to have "universal" solutions.
4. Be ready and humble enough to learn: It should not matter at all your previous background/experience. The most relaxed discussions will happen if all the participants are thinking, from a start, that they could be wrong. If you start a thread or participate in one thinking that you are right, with no intention to correct yourself if someone else offers a more solid argument, then the discussion can become annoying. So always participate giving some room to a potential error, even if you are 99.99% sure about what you say. You never know, so be open to learn from everybody,
5. Do not repeat again and again the same argument. If you do not agree with a comment from someone, the right thing is to extend or support your answer with more information or properly refer it.
6. And, of course, the basis: do not take comments as personal, respect the other users, have patience with the members, focus in the ideas behind instead of the wording, think by yourself before acting, and again...be open to learn new things. This forum is not intended to compete between the members rather than collaborate. When people successes thanks to guidelines and help provided here, it is a success of the community, not only of that person. This attitude and way of thinking is what makes great to a community. Note that, however, success is something that you have to define by yourself, despite of whether you are looking for just an impressive tank at home, or you are trying to score high in the EAPLC or IAPLC. The highest the expectations, the most difficult will be, but the contribution of the community to your work will not be less important because of that.
And well, long enough for only two pennies.
Manual I read this comment again. This post serves a sticky status I reckon. I may even copy this post to another forum just to educate everyone [will send you pm to make sure you are ok with it]...
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