Alexander Belchenko
Member
Looks good and very healthy!
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ADA 60P Second attempt.. Update: on the road to recovery
- Thread starter JamieB
- Start date
Ryan Thang To
Member
nice tank i like it alot. i also have a 60p great tank.
cheers
ryan
cheers
ryan
JamieB
Member
- Joined
- 27 Dec 2013
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- 273
Few more pics.. Added a male and female pair of blue rams.. Beautiful fish.. Already gone for a few RCS but the bloodfins are attacking them anyway so I'm not sure they will last either way.. Amano's look safe luckily as they don't reproduce as much. Rams are starting to colour up more and more in just the 24 hours I've had them but here's a pic from yesterday just an hour or so after putting them in..
Did a small trim and moved the outflow lily pipe to the front of the tank so it doesn't hit against anything... Hoping it gives even better flow around the tank but we'll see.. You can also see I've added in 2 plants in the back right corner these are Hygrophila 'Siamensis 53B' and Staurogyne repens.. I only have 1 of each that I intended to put into my 40cm cube with my betta but I am concerned that they may die as it's a low tech tank so I'm going to grow them here and put some new stems/rhizomes into the other tank. They were in a bucket for 2 weeks with no light but still surviving somehow...
Picture of 2 of the Amano's... Added 5 more yesterday as I only had 4/5 anyway.. You can also see some algae in the moss starting to come through as well. Not sure what type yet but will investigate.. Therefore not sure of the best way to get rid of it!
Did a small trim and moved the outflow lily pipe to the front of the tank so it doesn't hit against anything... Hoping it gives even better flow around the tank but we'll see.. You can also see I've added in 2 plants in the back right corner these are Hygrophila 'Siamensis 53B' and Staurogyne repens.. I only have 1 of each that I intended to put into my 40cm cube with my betta but I am concerned that they may die as it's a low tech tank so I'm going to grow them here and put some new stems/rhizomes into the other tank. They were in a bucket for 2 weeks with no light but still surviving somehow...
Picture of 2 of the Amano's... Added 5 more yesterday as I only had 4/5 anyway.. You can also see some algae in the moss starting to come through as well. Not sure what type yet but will investigate.. Therefore not sure of the best way to get rid of it!
JamieB
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- 27 Dec 2013
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- 273
Week 8... I think..
Lots of trimming of the Rotala.. Half tempted to replace it as it's not that pretty and grows like mad... What do you think? I'm getting a lot of what I think is BBA, several pictures below.. I've upped the CO2 to try and help as I was nowhere near yellow on the drop checker so I'm now at about 3BPS on my counter. Hopefully this helps. I also upped the macro ferts as I think I wasn't dosing enough potassium due to holes in lower leaves of the reineckkii.
The tank looks darker now it's grown in. I'm not sure if that is just the plants growing in more or something else.. It looks dull compared to the last posts pictures.
What do you reckon guys?
Lots of trimming of the Rotala.. Half tempted to replace it as it's not that pretty and grows like mad... What do you think? I'm getting a lot of what I think is BBA, several pictures below.. I've upped the CO2 to try and help as I was nowhere near yellow on the drop checker so I'm now at about 3BPS on my counter. Hopefully this helps. I also upped the macro ferts as I think I wasn't dosing enough potassium due to holes in lower leaves of the reineckkii.
The tank looks darker now it's grown in. I'm not sure if that is just the plants growing in more or something else.. It looks dull compared to the last posts pictures.
What do you reckon guys?
Hobbes1911
Seedling
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- 16 Oct 2015
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Spot treat where you can, black out and up CO2 once appropriate!
Hobbes1911
Seedling
- Joined
- 16 Oct 2015
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- 10
Also, I meant spot treat with liquid carbon like excel. You might also get away with treating the tank with H2O2, I don't know how hair grass or ff will respond to those so research both methods first. I usually spot treat where I can with liquid carbon and then up the CO2. Most importantly, it's keeping an appropriate and stable level of CO2. Fluctuations in CO2 levels can also lead to algae.
Your light might have to be replaced with one that is more evenly distributed. As it sits right now, you have too much light for the available plant mass/nutrient levels and the algae are able to take advantage of this imbalance more readily than the plants. So your plan (if spot treating of H2O2 - also research each method) should include a blackout of some sort, with frequent but small water changes to try and limit nutrients. Then for the time being, I'd limit the light (window screen works well, or raising it) and slowly up the CO2 until you hit the ~30mg/l mark (I think that's light green in most drop checker systems) and then dose again slowly. The reason you have to go slowly up is you don't want to gas your fish, so you can't go high to low. See if that helps!
Your light might have to be replaced with one that is more evenly distributed. As it sits right now, you have too much light for the available plant mass/nutrient levels and the algae are able to take advantage of this imbalance more readily than the plants. So your plan (if spot treating of H2O2 - also research each method) should include a blackout of some sort, with frequent but small water changes to try and limit nutrients. Then for the time being, I'd limit the light (window screen works well, or raising it) and slowly up the CO2 until you hit the ~30mg/l mark (I think that's light green in most drop checker systems) and then dose again slowly. The reason you have to go slowly up is you don't want to gas your fish, so you can't go high to low. See if that helps!
JamieB
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I'm a little hesitant to dose with H2O2 but I can definitely spot dose with LC.
Regarding the light I was actually thinking of getting another as I was sure it wasn't enough light at first. I can definitely raise it about another 15cm so will try that out as well.
Also the drop checker is lime green but perhaps not enough.. I can definitely push it a bit more. I have posted a thread about my diffuser over in the CO2 section as I'm not sure if this could be causing some issues with how small it is.
Thanks Hobbes
Regarding the light I was actually thinking of getting another as I was sure it wasn't enough light at first. I can definitely raise it about another 15cm so will try that out as well.
Also the drop checker is lime green but perhaps not enough.. I can definitely push it a bit more. I have posted a thread about my diffuser over in the CO2 section as I'm not sure if this could be causing some issues with how small it is.
Thanks Hobbes
That's a lot of algae 
(possibly the reason your tank looks "darker")
You don't mention a water change schedule (or I just missed it), but increase frequency while sorting algae issues
You might look at fablau's photos in post # 343, then scroll back to understand what he changed in his tank (I think lean dosing combined with purigen & carbon to reduce DOC's etc in the tank) - there are many theories about what encourages/discourages various algaes ... mostly it seems to be about finding the balance for your tank (nowhere near as helpful as a point by point program )
You seem to have good flow, good CO2 etc but you also have loads of algae, so something needs to change.
If you've a spray bar, you might consider going back to that for awhile - definitely test flow patterns in your tank, as the plants have grown in these will change, also your rocks do impose a significant barrier effect
Try (gently) combing through your moss to see what you can remove manually, also note whether there is significant amounts of trapped debris - give your mosses syphon attention during every water change - though you may need to warn resident shrimp first
Once you've done a "clean up", you might do a 3day blackout (do some searches on ukaps for various examples) - this should affect algae more than plants, & you should be able to remove a good bit of debris afterwards. (again give tank & filters a good clean - you can skip the pre-blackout clean if you like & just do it at this stage)
At this point, decide how aggressively you want to trim/remove algae damaged leafs - basically wherever you see algae, there tends to be some degree of leaf damage ... as plants grow, gradually remove these older leafs.
If you can "borrow" some juvenile SAE from your local fish shop, these are great algae cleaners (they just get too large for a 60P, especially as they are quite social fish that are best kept in groups) - note they will be a test of your mad fish capture skillz at removal time
Adding in extra shrimp should also help, tiger shrimp are excellent algae crew (& don't get as large as Amano's), red nose shrimp (there seem to be number of species sold under this general term) etc but first note your fish reactions, shrimp may be limiting their algae grazing due to fish interest
If you decide to increase CO2, do it while you're at home to monitor fish.
Adding "improved" aeration (oxygen) at night can also help limit algae - again you may already be doing this - just raise the lily slightly for greater surface agitation
Reduce light period - try 5-6 hours rather than the current 8, once algae is sorted you can likely slowly increase this time period again
Daily dosing of liquid carbon may also help reduce/discourage algae
(possibly the reason your tank looks "darker")You might start with a thorough filter "clean" - check your tubing & filter pads, rinse any debris from media using conditioned tap water (maybe consider adding in a fine filter pad - not sure what your foam pads are like, but mine are quite coarse)
You don't mention a water change schedule (or I just missed it), but increase frequency while sorting algae issues
You might look at fablau's photos in post # 343, then scroll back to understand what he changed in his tank (I think lean dosing combined with purigen & carbon to reduce DOC's etc in the tank) - there are many theories about what encourages/discourages various algaes ... mostly it seems to be about finding the balance for your tank (nowhere near as helpful as a point by point program )
You seem to have good flow, good CO2 etc but you also have loads of algae, so something needs to change.
If you've a spray bar, you might consider going back to that for awhile - definitely test flow patterns in your tank, as the plants have grown in these will change, also your rocks do impose a significant barrier effect
Try (gently) combing through your moss to see what you can remove manually, also note whether there is significant amounts of trapped debris - give your mosses syphon attention during every water change - though you may need to warn resident shrimp first
Once you've done a "clean up", you might do a 3day blackout (do some searches on ukaps for various examples) - this should affect algae more than plants, & you should be able to remove a good bit of debris afterwards. (again give tank & filters a good clean - you can skip the pre-blackout clean if you like & just do it at this stage)
At this point, decide how aggressively you want to trim/remove algae damaged leafs - basically wherever you see algae, there tends to be some degree of leaf damage ... as plants grow, gradually remove these older leafs.
If you can "borrow" some juvenile SAE from your local fish shop, these are great algae cleaners (they just get too large for a 60P, especially as they are quite social fish that are best kept in groups) - note they will be a test of your mad fish capture skillz at removal time
Adding in extra shrimp should also help, tiger shrimp are excellent algae crew (& don't get as large as Amano's), red nose shrimp (there seem to be number of species sold under this general term) etc but first note your fish reactions, shrimp may be limiting their algae grazing due to fish interest
If you decide to increase CO2, do it while you're at home to monitor fish.
Adding "improved" aeration (oxygen) at night can also help limit algae - again you may already be doing this - just raise the lily slightly for greater surface agitation
Reduce light period - try 5-6 hours rather than the current 8, once algae is sorted you can likely slowly increase this time period again
Daily dosing of liquid carbon may also help reduce/discourage algae
Martin in Holland
Member
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- 28 May 2013
- Messages
- 2,311
Too much light (not just in hours), bad or not enough flow, not enough surface agitation.
Cover your lights, empty your filter and clean it, raise the outflow, but also check if you really have a 10x turnover from your filter.
Maybe start with a blackout first.
Cover your lights, empty your filter and clean it, raise the outflow, but also check if you really have a 10x turnover from your filter.
Maybe start with a blackout first.
JamieB
Member
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- 27 Dec 2013
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- 273
Thanks Martin and Alto just for critique I have done the following..
Huge plant trim.. I probably need to do more so will do that tonight. and raised the light a good 15-20cm. I have kept the rest the same... for now
My filter is an Eheim 250T eXperience which should be shoving out 750l/h so this should be adequate. I also raise the lily pipes overnight to aerate the water etc.
Huge plant trim.. I probably need to do more so will do that tonight. and raised the light a good 15-20cm. I have kept the rest the same... for now
My filter is an Eheim 250T eXperience which should be shoving out 750l/h so this should be adequate. I also raise the lily pipes overnight to aerate the water etc.
BBA can also be caused by too much food. My fish feeder dumper a load of food into the tank and was a while before I noticed, as it all was washed behind a piece of wood to rot. Anyway removed as much food detritus as I could once found, picking out with tweezers but BBA started appearing shortly afterwards. Large water change didn't stop it growing over next couple of weeks....
So at water change, plants dipped in diluted liquid carbon and with in 24hours BBA changes colour and it started dying off and was scoffed by the fish.
After that careful control of CO2 and lighting period and BBA hasn't come back (too much !!).
So at water change, plants dipped in diluted liquid carbon and with in 24hours BBA changes colour and it started dying off and was scoffed by the fish.
After that careful control of CO2 and lighting period and BBA hasn't come back (too much !!).
Hobbes1911
Seedling
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- 16 Oct 2015
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I found that window screen (to keep out mozzies) will reduce the lighting strength by a good amount. Of course you can always start with one "sheet" and then increase as you need. But as already said the light is too strong for the plants you have with the nutrients that are around. I'd manually remove for now and spot treat where you can, do a wc and then black out. While black out do more small wcs. You don't want to impact the water parameters too drastically, but you want to reduce your tds load which small frequent wcs tend to do. It'll be tedious, but the algae can be controlled, just stay on it.
Add in a floater such as L laevigatum or S natans (Tropica offers both as 1-2-Grow) - much nicer to look at than screens/covers & will help consume extra nutrients as well
(I suspect that Darrel dw1305 might have some to send out if you ask)
I think your filter is just fine - though it's good to look at flow within the tank as hardscape can easily create low flow zones.
Increase your CO2 re that unchanging drop checker color - you can always just leave CO2 going 24/7 until you're able to stay at home to monitor fish response to increased bubble rate
Reduce your photo period from 8 hours to 7 hours (if you don't want to change this too much) - for viewing, you can always just drop the light to ground level behind the tank ... add an orange towel in the vicinity & you'll get a nice sunset effect - at least this is what happens on the "Mist" tank I have (you can simulate this frosted glass background with "peel & stick" window film or even a bin lid)
Water change routine???
(I suspect that Darrel dw1305 might have some to send out if you ask
)I think your filter is just fine - though it's good to look at flow within the tank as hardscape can easily create low flow zones.
Increase your CO2 re that unchanging drop checker color - you can always just leave CO2 going 24/7 until you're able to stay at home to monitor fish response to increased bubble rate
Reduce your photo period from 8 hours to 7 hours (if you don't want to change this too much) - for viewing, you can always just drop the light to ground level behind the tank ... add an orange towel in the vicinity & you'll get a nice sunset effect
- at least this is what happens on the "Mist" tank I have (you can simulate this frosted glass background with "peel & stick" window film or even a bin lid) Water change routine???
JamieB
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- 27 Dec 2013
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- 273
Hi Alto
To answer the questions firstly or add some insight..
I do have Natans in the tank, it's just started growing well finally, it's split into 2 and another split coming soon...
The lily pipe I have is positioned so there is nothing "directly" in front of the flow but as these work as a cone I guess it could be hitting the tall rock in the hardscape but it is quite far from this. My lily pipe also never really makes any surface agitation when submerged... Perhaps I should take some stuff out of the filter to improve flow? it currently has 3 coarse foam pads in the bottom basket then substrat in the top one with a bag of purigen and above that a floss style pad.
I will increase CO2 again tonight... The drop checker does change by morning time but only to green whereas it's lime green during the day.
I can reduce the photo period. It is currently 7 hours if I remember correctly!
Water change routine is 25l a week which should be around 50%. This is with tap water which is dechlorinated with Seachem Prime.
To answer the questions firstly or add some insight..
I do have Natans in the tank, it's just started growing well finally, it's split into 2 and another split coming soon...
The lily pipe I have is positioned so there is nothing "directly" in front of the flow but as these work as a cone I guess it could be hitting the tall rock in the hardscape but it is quite far from this. My lily pipe also never really makes any surface agitation when submerged... Perhaps I should take some stuff out of the filter to improve flow? it currently has 3 coarse foam pads in the bottom basket then substrat in the top one with a bag of purigen and above that a floss style pad.
I will increase CO2 again tonight... The drop checker does change by morning time but only to green whereas it's lime green during the day.
I can reduce the photo period. It is currently 7 hours if I remember correctly!
Water change routine is 25l a week which should be around 50%. This is with tap water which is dechlorinated with Seachem Prime.
JamieB
Member
- Joined
- 27 Dec 2013
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- 273
Tank is still not doing great.. I went away for Christmas and put it into a low maintenance mode. low light hours etc.
It helped get rid of some algae but not massively. I think my issue is with flow more than anything.. My filter should be sufficient but it doesn't blow the bubbles at the opposite side of the tank coming from the diffuser... I've taken out the filter floss pad and 2 of the 3 foam pads and it did improve flow but it still feels not enough. I am using the eXperience 250T and it's quoted at 750l/h which is sufficient and with so little filter media I'd have thought it'd be close to that output.. But perhaps not.. I don't know if it's the lily pipes causing it but again I'm not sure.
I have been contemplating swapping the diffuser to an inline but I am concerned about the cleaning and how fragile the Co2 connection is reported to be. Plants are growing well and the drop checker shows that Co2 is being distributed well I'm not convinced.. A LOT of bubbles get to the surface and the bubbles appear to come from the edges of the diffuser rather than in the middle of the ceramic and this appears to be making the bubbles bigger, as though they are not actually going through the ceramic. I can get a pic if anyone wants one to see if this is abnormal
It helped get rid of some algae but not massively. I think my issue is with flow more than anything.. My filter should be sufficient but it doesn't blow the bubbles at the opposite side of the tank coming from the diffuser... I've taken out the filter floss pad and 2 of the 3 foam pads and it did improve flow but it still feels not enough. I am using the eXperience 250T and it's quoted at 750l/h which is sufficient and with so little filter media I'd have thought it'd be close to that output.. But perhaps not.. I don't know if it's the lily pipes causing it but again I'm not sure.
I have been contemplating swapping the diffuser to an inline but I am concerned about the cleaning and how fragile the Co2 connection is reported to be. Plants are growing well and the drop checker shows that Co2 is being distributed well I'm not convinced.. A LOT of bubbles get to the surface and the bubbles appear to come from the edges of the diffuser rather than in the middle of the ceramic and this appears to be making the bubbles bigger, as though they are not actually going through the ceramic. I can get a pic if anyone wants one to see if this is abnormal
JamieB
Member
- Joined
- 27 Dec 2013
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- 273
Hi all. Long overdue update due to me still suffering constant algae woes.
As you can see it looks awful. I have no idea what I'm doing wrong.... Co2 always seems spot on and I dose EI 6 days a week... It needs a good clean at the moment but I never miss a weekly change, just don't clean the lily pipes every week
Help!
As you can see it looks awful. I have no idea what I'm doing wrong.... Co2 always seems spot on and I dose EI 6 days a week... It needs a good clean at the moment but I never miss a weekly change, just don't clean the lily pipes every week
Help!
Chris Jackson
Member
Well that's a bummer Jamie!
There are many threads here about BBA that you can browse for answers but no guarantees. In my tank it has just gradually gone away as the months pass.
The key thing, in my opinion, with any algae issue is to focus on growing the plants rather than killing algae. A good starting point would be to make many water changes to 'reset' the tank and then start EI afresh and then let the plants grow into a jungle before gradually trimming back to how you desire. Also start night time aeration (by raising the lilly pipe) and add some filter bacteria booster.
There are many threads here about BBA that you can browse for answers but no guarantees. In my tank it has just gradually gone away as the months pass.
The key thing, in my opinion, with any algae issue is to focus on growing the plants rather than killing algae. A good starting point would be to make many water changes to 'reset' the tank and then start EI afresh and then let the plants grow into a jungle before gradually trimming back to how you desire. Also start night time aeration (by raising the lilly pipe) and add some filter bacteria booster.
