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CO2 newbie with soft water issues

Rancher

Seedling
Joined
9 Nov 2015
Messages
5
I have received, but not yet set up, a CO2 "SodaStream" setup with a bazooka diffusor. I have not run CO2 before, so I have some questions I hope I can get help with. (Tank parameters are below.)

1. The water where I live is quite soft. Typically the tank has KH 2-3 (usually 2) and GH 5-7 (typically 6).

2. I am not 100% sure of the pH as it seems to be about 7.4-7.6 (i.e., right on the line between the "Low pH" and "High pH" APA test kits).

3. TDS ranges from about 110 (post-water change) to 160 (right before a weekly water change).

4. *Currently* the lights come on from 6.30-8.15 AM and then 5-10 pm. There are some algae issues, so I think this will need to change.

I am currently using Liquid Carbon and 1/2 strength EI dosing for the plants. Obviously when I get the gassed CO2 set up, I will dispense with the Liquid Carbon.

Filtration is via a Fluval 206 external.

My questions:

A) I plan to start the CO2 slow (1 bps) and move up over time. I am concerned, however, that the KH is insufficient and/or the pH will drop too much. Will this be an issue?

B) I know that I should start the CO2 2 hours before the lights come on. I assume this would be 3.00 pm if the lights come on at 5.00, but (as in #4 above) I do have them on for a few hours in the morning. Should I just cut this morning period (due to algae) out and keep the night one? Is 5 hours enough for the plants?

C) when should I kick the EI dosing to full-strength? 1 week later? Longer? Less?

D) should I place the atomizer close to the filter's intake or under the outflow? Both have been suggested so I am not really sure what to do. My tank's circulation is not great

I am sure there are other questions I have forgotten, but any advice on these would be appreciated!
 
A. Yes start at 1 bubble and observe your fish and measure your pH, if possible le keep kh around 4-6
D. You need to get on top of your circulation issues
 
With a KH lower than 4, it will not give a good reading of your pH. Dump in some CaCO3 to get your KH a bit higher before measuring pH.
The light on in the morning is nice for you to look at the tank and Algae love this too, plants don't benefit from light on less than 4 hours so algae will have the upper hand and they will thank you for it.
If your circulation isn't great it's best to sort that out first, maybe get a power head attache a spray bar to it and place the CO2 atomizer under the intake of the power head .....a power head, NOT a wave maker.

Enjoy your tank.
 
With a KH lower than 4, it will not give a good reading of your pH. Dump in some CaCO3 to get your KH a bit higher before measuring pH.

I have some CaCO3 in the form of "limestone flour". (I used to keep African giant land snails, and they need it for proper shell development.) Is this what you mean? How much do I add to a 98 liter tank and how often? I do 40-50% water changes weekly, so I assume this would need to be renewed every week as well?

The light on in the morning is nice for you to look at the tank and Algae love this too, plants don't benefit from light on less than 4 hours so algae will have the upper hand and they will thank you for it.

Okay. Should I then increase the 2nd photoperiod to, say, 7 hours from the current 5? Or leave it as it is?

If your circulation isn't great it's best to sort that out first, maybe get a power head attache a spray bar to it and place the CO2 atomizer under the intake of the power head .....a power head, NOT a wave maker.

I agree, but the problem I have is that the type of fish I have don't like a lot of motion and my tank is relatively small (98 liter). I had a spray bar on the return hose of the Fluval 206 filter for a while. The circulation was great but the fish had a hard time swimming when near the front of the tank (the water was being shot across just under the surface and then back down the front). Would a MaxiJet MP400 be sufficient for circulation but not too strong for the fish?

Thank you!
 
How much do I add to a 98 liter tank and how often? I do 40-50% water changes weekly, so I assume this would need to be renewed every week as well?
About 1/4 teaspoon should do it....test after a few hours and add more if needed (add a little and adjust). With every water change you should add 1/2 of what you needed to get the right result of KH.
 
Circulation doesn't necesarily mean upping the power as such. Just making sure the tank layout is optimised to ensure there are no dead spots would help.

Can you dose one EI dose as dry powders, and monitor where they go in the tank.

You might be able to improve cicrulation by moving things about, as opposed to chucking bigger pumps in.

How is the water delivered to the tank, is it via spray bar?

Another member on here has recently seen improvements in his tank but turning down the flow rate of his filter. I am trying the same with my JBL1501 - the theory being that too much flow might reduce ability of plants to access CO2 as it's blasted around.

Also, consider dumping the PH test kit and getting a PH Pen instead, it is more reliable (if calibrated occassionally) and quicker.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Xcellent-Gl...e=UTF8&qid=1452250731&sr=8-4&keywords=ph+pens
 
I have a KH of 3 and it sits in my tank at 6.8. I dropped it down to around 6.2 which is about 30ppm for me. If I drop it down below 6 my Rainbows gasp at the surface. I would recommend picking up a pH pen, even one fo the 5 quid china jobs are better then the API kits for measuring pH change due to CO2.

Start EI dosing as soon as you fill up the tank with water.
 
My tank is very similar. Having a real hard time getting the PH drop right, 1point ph unit drop causes distress for fish.

I had seen posts elsehwere that suggested if water was soft, then 1ph unit drop might not be enough!
 
Welcome to softwater that everyone wants o_O. The fact that your fish are gasping suggests that you've reached well above 30ppm without doing a 1 pH drop. That or you don't have enough water movement for gas exchange so you have low oxygen.

I'm happy with my 0.6 drop, my fish are happy, the plants are having no issues but I do have pretty low light using twin T5NO.
 
Many thanks to everyone for all for the advice!

I have a pH probe on order. I'll also try re-installing the spray bar I had on previously and see what that does; likely I'll need to let up on the filter outflow.

I have removed the morning 2 hour light period but lengthened the 5 hour evening one to 6 for now. However, I have reflectors on the 18w T8 daylight tube (2 of them), and will remove those as well. At the moment the algae is not completely out of hand (mostly brown thread algae in some moss, a few clumps of stag-horn on some sword-plant leaves, and a bit of green spot algae) but all of it is immediately below the lights.

I have added some CaCO3/limestone flour, 2 times today. The KH moved from 2 to 3, the GH from 5 to 7, TDS when from 145 to 159 (not sure if this is relevant), and the pH (test kit) from 6.8 this morning [lowest I have ever seen it] to 7.8 this evening. I don't know if the pH movement is normal daily fluctuation as I have never tested it early in the morning before; I'll try again tomorrow morning. The fish seem fine, including my Celestial Pearl Danios, which I understand are rather sensitive to water chemistry fluctuations.

I will say the limestone flour is all over the tank now, and on the plants. I did mix it in some tank water and then poured it in, but of course it doesn't dissolve. On the plus side, my nerite snails (who have weak shells due to the soft water) have a good source of calcium all around them now.

My SodaStream bottles arrived today as well, so I am currently testing for leaks but not running CO2 into the tank yet. I am not sure if I should wait until I get the KH sorted out or just to give it a go. I don't want to have a major pH crash either of course. Any thoughts on that?
 
KH, GH, and pH remained stable overnight. I did not add the liquid carbon today, but set up the CO₂ at 1 bps. I let it run about 30 mins to make sure everything is working, and will have it come on with the timer later today before the lights. I increased the EI from 1/2 dose to 3/4 but will go to 100% next week. The water is due to be changed tomorrow, so I'll work on the spray bar then.

Once the pH probe arrives next week, I'll try to do a profile during the day. I'm still not sure I can get the KH up sufficiently.

Anyhow, fingers crossed that I don't kill all the fish and/or plants: the algae can die though :)
 
I've ran the CO₂ for two days now. On the whole it has gone okay for the plants; there has even been some pearling on some of them. In the meantime, I have removed both reflectors and cut the lighting down to 6 hours. I don't know if this is enough though (the plants are "easy" types).

One issue, however, is with the fish and the KH. I managed to get the KH up to about 4.5 or so (more than 4 but less than 5 at least) with the aid of some sodium bicarbonate. However, the pH went as low as 6.4 yesterday (test kit) and 6.6 or so today. Some of the fish did not seem terribly happy about it, but survived. I'd rather not have it get so acidic (6.8 seems fine) but I also don't want to have to rebuffer the water everyday with sodium bicarbonate if it can be avoided as I am worried about sodium build up (or is this not an issue?).

Perhaps I should do as Andy "Big clown" suggests as use liquid carbon as well?

I was unable to work on the circulation this weekend, but hope to do so tomorrow. I know it needs to be sorted out. I did notice that a fair bit of light comes in though the background plastic print from a window about 2.5 meters behind; I've now covered the back of the tank with something truly opaque so I hope this helps.

Any thoughts on the KH/pH issue?
 
One issue, however, is with the fish and the KH. I managed to get the KH up to about 4.5 or so (more than 4 but less than 5 at least) with the aid of some sodium bicarbonate. However, the pH went as low as 6.4 yesterday (test kit) and 6.6 or so today. Some of the fish did not seem terribly happy about it, but survived. I'd rather not have it get so acidic (6.8 seems fine) but I also don't want to have to rebuffer the water everyday with sodium bicarbonate if it can be avoided as I am worried about sodium build up (or is this not an issue?).
Don't worry about the effect of pH caused by CO2 addition and fish. If you're fish are stressed, gasping at the surface then this is caused by to much dissolved CO2 in the water, not the pH level.
 
(or is this not an issue?).
Yes sodium build up is an issue as there are no animal and plant metabolic pathways to use sodium, which is why the sea is sodium salty as no plants or animals can make use of the salt. Better to use potassium carbonate.
 
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