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Help with my tank!

Julian

Member
Joined
20 Jul 2013
Messages
688
So I've been struggling to grow a carpet in my tank for over a year. I've tried just about everything I can think of to improve the results but they always end up the same - after a couple of weeks, the plants turn transparent and melt. Everything I've read tells me that this is not enough CO2/too much light, but I've gassed my fish and lowered my lighting without this improving things.

Some information about my setup:

Tank: TMC Signature 600 (100L)
Filter: Fluval 306 (media trays are half full to improve flow)
Lights: 2 x TMC Mini 400 LED's running at 30%
CO2: FE + CO2art Dual Stage Reg + Up in-line atomizer
Heating: Hydor inline
Substrate: ADA Amazonia
Fertiliser: EI dry dosing (APFUK) 3/16 KNO3 + 1/16 KH2PO4, 1/16 Trace + MGSO4 (I forget the exact amount off the top of my head but it's about twice as much KNO3)

pH is 7.0 before CO2 comes on, the lowest I can get it before the fish start to gasp is 6.2. I have 2 dropcheckers, one at substrate level and one at water level on opposite sides of the tank, both are lime green/yellowish at lights on. I'm using one of the cheap yellow ebay pH pens and keep it in probe solution fluid. I've calibrated it a few times but it's never been more than 0.1+/- out after a few weeks of being in the storage solution.

CO2 comes on 3 hours before lights on (I could get away with 2 but like to be sure) and goes off about an hour before the lights. Spray bar is at the back, creates cylindrical flow pattern, CO2 bubbles can be visibly seen to be passing in proximity to plants. I'm assuming that a Fluval 306 (meant for a 300L) with half the media trays empty should provide sufficient turnover. The jets of water coming out of the spray bar can easily reach the front of the tank, my only concern is that the holes may be too small and I might benefit from a spray bar with bigger holes.

This is what the tank looked like just after planting, 2 or 3 weeks later the glosso has all melted. The other plants are OK but not great.

tank.jpg


As mentioned, I've tried increasing CO2 and lowering my light levels but this does not help. I've bought the same plant from different ebay sellers to see if this made any difference but it has not.

I have some more plants arriving soon but I'm at a loss as to what else to try.
 
I hate that when it happens!
You might find your scape responds better with a single outlet rather than a spray bar.
You might not have as much flow as you think, if you could redirect the flow in to a bucket & get a real idea of what is actually coming though.
When I have had similar issues it has always been lack of C02, to prove that point I have removed the fish, upped the light a filled the display with 20bps!
However the simple facts are... light, gas & ferts will see fast growth as long as the plants receive them.
 
What can i do to help the invitro plants transition to being underwater? Low light and adequate CO2, but for how long? When do I know I don't have enough light?
 
Try a proprietary fertilizer such as Tropica Premium & Specialized (eg, dosed alternate days) for the next 3 months & see where this goes ... it may be more costly than EI but I suspect not as much as plant replacements & frustration

struggling to grow a carpet in my tank for over a year. I've tried just about everything I can think of to improve the results but they always end up the same - after a couple of weeks, the plants turn transparent and melt
Is this always Glossostigma elatinoides - why not try Micranthemum 'Monte Carlo' as this is usually less demanding ... get "easy" & "medium" rated plants growing successfully before frustrating yourself with "advanced" plants - & note that some "medium" plants may do better in your water conditions than some "easy" & so on.

If there is a local club or shop with planted display tanks, look at what does well & start with those.

Really like the hardscape & plants you've chosen :)
 
New plants in, added some more substrate in hope that where the plants are a little 'higher' it might increase CO2 availability.

Lights are on for 5 hours, set to 15%. Not sure if I should lower them some more?

CO2 at 3 bar, 4 bps. Haven't managed to do a proper pH profile yet but I'm hoping with the lights that low it will give me enough margin for error.

uploadfromtaptalk1448492128950.jpg
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Any update on your scape? I've been having similar issues so interested to see if you've cracked it.
 
What kH do you have in your water? The CO2 levels are related to both pH and kH levels, so maybe the combination of parametrs is not good enough to ensure the right amounts of CO2.
 
Any update on your scape? I've been having similar issues so interested to see if you've cracked it.

Same results as last time unfortunately, all the plants in that picture are well and truly dead. However, I think I've made some progress, I've had some HC in my tank for about a month and a half now and it hasn't died.. Yet!

What kH do you have in your water? The CO2 levels are related to both pH and kH levels, so maybe the combination of parametrs is not good enough to ensure the right amounts of CO2.

I think the last time I tested my kH it was about 12, but will have to re-test as I can't remember exactly. My understanding is that it doesn't matter what your kH is, it just means you'll need to use more CO2 to make it dissolve into the water. I've suspected all along that something with my water isn't quite right, maybe this is the cause of all my failures?

Will post some pictures later, but it's more or less similar to what's above.
 
I tested my kH it was about 12

Well, the highest your kH the more CO2 you have to inject to achieve the right levels of CO2 for the plants, i.e. in some way we are wasting CO2 gas. However, a kH = 12 and pH = 7 provides aright level of CO2 for plants, so if your kH is still like that, then this should not be a problem. It is worth to check, thought. Carpeting plants are known to have very low efficiency taking CO2 from water, so it is usually the main issue involved in a failure to it.

Nevertheless, there is a good video about how to keep carpeting plants. It is not valid to all the species but helps to track the basic concepts:



Hope this help.

Best wishes,

Manuel
 
Are the plants pearling? It may actually be as simple as too little light... There will almost always be some melt with new plants but higher light will encourage stronger growth. Maybe try higher light but with frequent small water changes to keep pollutants down
 
Lights: 2 x TMC Mini 400 LED's running at 30%
Are the plants pearling? It may actually be as simple as too little light... There will almost always be some melt with new plants but higher light will encourage stronger growth. Maybe try higher light but with frequent small water changes to keep pollutants down
I think that your probably right Chris
I use a colour plus 1500 tile at about 60% on a 60l tank.

Hi Julian I would increase your tiles to about 40-50% and review your flow, I would suspect that your filter is a little under powered for a 100l tank, even with minimal media but it could be possible with the correct outlet setup (trial and error)
Regarding water change I do 50% 2-3 times per week when things are not going to plan
 
Increase light intensity immediately. Too little light for sure!

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I've got the same tank and lights as you and I 'had' the same spray bar. For all their cost (I spent over £100 on the glass necessary for full cover along the length of the tank) I don't think those glass spray bars are up to the job. As you have already alluded the holes are too small. I would sell them, but I've got so little faith in them I would feel disingenuous. Furthermore i suspect that using spray bars on open top tanks where evaporation is a problem and one is not diligent with top ups may cause co2 fluctuations due to large changes in surface agitation. This may be further compounded by the larger comparative surface associated with shallow tanks. I agree that your lighting needs upping (My mini's hang 10 inches from the surface at 100% and it does not seem like overkill), but more critically, looking at your layout i'm convinced a lily pipe pointed across the front of the tank would sort out your problems.

Cheers
 
Thanks for the replies guys. You've given me a lot to think about.

I'm going to order some new plants and up the lights. My idea is to try planting the HC at the top of the hill, that way there should be more CO2 available, then over time it will grow down as far as it can. I'm also going to try a lily pipe mounted on the right hand side pointing directly towards the hill which should rule out any flow issues. I know the cylindrical flow pattern is the most optimal, but I'm only trying to grow plants in one area of the tank, so surely directing as much flow to this area is logical?

Another thing I've been thinking about is using rain water in my water changes to lower my KH (assuming I can collect enough).

Sound like a good plan?
 
Well, the highest your kH the more CO2 you have to inject to achieve the right levels of CO2 for the plants, i.e. in some way we are wasting CO2 gas. However, a kH = 12 and pH = 7 provides aright level of CO2 for plants, so if your kH is still like that, then this should not be a problem. It is worth to check, thought. Carpeting plants are known to have very low efficiency taking CO2 from water, so it is usually the main issue involved in a failure to it.

Nevertheless, there is a good video about how to keep carpeting plants. It is not valid to all the species but helps to track the basic concepts:



Hope this help.

Best wishes,

Manuel



thank you for this
 
I feel your pain Julian. I am in the same boat. It is sooooo frustrating when you have spent 1000's and tried everything you can have think of, and your tank looks dreadful.

I hope you manage to sort it out :)

With regards KH - mine is very low and I am having the same issues as you. So KH might be a red herring. My money is on light


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New plants are in, lights at 60%. Fingers crossed.

I'm going to make my own lilly pipe out of Stainless Steel so threw together an Eheim/Fluval hybrid outflow to use in the meantime.

7b10c02ab3c8c77f63eef6ec77299ca6.jpg


53767b377aa4718a417c46adc7db87cb.jpg


Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
 
New plants in, added some more substrate in hope that where the plants are a little 'higher' it might increase CO2 availability.

Lights are on for 5 hours, set to 15%. Not sure if I should lower them some more?

CO2 at 3 bar, 4 bps. Haven't managed to do a proper pH profile yet but I'm hoping with the lights that low it will give me enough margin for error.

View attachment 78050View attachment 78051

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

Hey Julian,

How has it been since increased light intensity? Also, what adaptors do you have on your AquaRay control unit? I have the black box, but obviously can't insert USB connectors from the light. Did they come with it when you bought it?

Cheers,

Joe
 
Hey Julian,

How has it been since increased light intensity? Also, what adaptors do you have on your AquaRay control unit? I have the black box, but obviously can't insert USB connectors from the light. Did they come with it when you bought it?

Cheers,

Joe
So far so good. The plants have only been in for a week so its a bit early to tell. I think there's been some growth though.

I had to buy the adaptors that convert the usb power supply cables into the male pointy type for the controller. They may have even come with the light units, can't remember.

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