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Tissue culture plants

Ajm200

Member
Joined
19 Feb 2010
Messages
531
Location
London
Sometime around Easter I hope to rescape my tank as it's been the same for years, the wood is crumbling and a pesky catfish is using the swords as 'an eat all you can buffet'.The crypts and anubias I have are healthy (except for old traces of bba on a couple of leaves)

The tank will be low light (2x54w HO T5) if I can get away with it (2' deep tank). It has been running on the two lights since Christmas and I have lots of new leaves on the anubias plants and the crypts aren't growing much but aren't dying back either so may be OK,

Hoping to go low tech. Currently dose 10ml easy carbo per day but hoping to stop to cut costs and hassle. We go away a lot and I can't rely on others to dose the tank (the BBA appeared when we were away last year)

I dose 50% EI recommended dose as everything in the tank is slow growing.

Loads of filtration 1xFX6, 1xAquamanta EFX 600 and a Fluval 405.

The substrate is Manado so doesn't hold plants well. I gave up growing stems as they were forever floating out of the substrate. I have lots of corys and a catfish in the big tank, I assume they helped uproot the plants.

The tank is big 5'x2' and I'm going to need a lot of plants. I've been looking at tissue culture plants to cut costs. Never used them before.

Am I likely to get away with using them in this setup? Will they grow well in low light/low tech or do they need high light and Co2?

Would I be better to setup a small tank with a quality substrate, more light and Co2 as a nursery tank to grow them on a bit first? As I'm looking at lots of crypts, I' thinking that moving them from high to low tech could be a complete nightmare

I'd love to hear your experiences and have some advice. Thanks
 
Hi Ajm200,

In your case, some people have tried the dry start system, which is thought to help plants to establish. As most aquatic plant farms are producing lots of their plans in emerged way (when possible) the dry start has some sense. It can have some difficulties, anyway, as you want to keep the moisture level in the tank.

However, with plants being already adapted to an aquatic environment (i.e. your previous plants) I am not totally sure if they will make it properly or not.

An about your question, it depends a lot of the species you select and the amounts of it you add. Low demanding species will make it just fine in low tech tanks, as far as the density of them is not too much. A Jungle type plant probably cannot be made low tech unless you really aim for very very low demanding plants. High demanding species will suffer and probably die in a low tech tank. Being tissue-cultured or pots makes not much difference here, as the key factor is the need of the plants. If you choose low demanding plants you should be able to make it well.

Respect your comments of the Cryptocorynes, again depend on the species. Cryptocoryne genre rooms lot of different species. Many of them are low demanding plants under my experience, and supported by providers. Tropica has a useful plan database that is not bad guide to sort out the needs of your plants in advance. See here an example of what they say about Cryptocorynes they sell:

http://tropica.com/en/plants/search/?mode=search&sew=Crypto&dif=&pgr=&ori=&use=

As you can see, most of them are labelled as "Easy". CO2 supply is recommended, anyway, to make them grow well, which become even more important if you plan to add lots of plants.
 
Thanks for the info.

i was going to aim for crypts that I've grown before. Easy plants that shouldn't need Co2.

I have most of the varieties in that list in the tank now

My concern is getting the tiny plants established but if they need nothing different to larger potted plants then I'm less worried.

Now just need to see if I can keep them in the substrate.

If they don't need a high tech environment to develop roots and thrive I can save myself the hassle of finding somewhere to setup another tank. Electric sockets are in short supply in this house!
 
Maybe suggest some budgets you're considering for this rescape

It can be easier to establish new plants with CO2 & higher light (natural light can be used to good effect as long as you can control exposure), especially as you've a large area to scape/fill with plants.
You might look at the costs of a basic CO2 system (worthwhile to discuss with CO2Art I think) as this can be easily automated & most plants appreciate the added CO2 (in contrast, some plants do very well with liquid CO2, others are not very efficient at utilizing this C source) even at low levels - Tropica has a few 300litre "easy" tanks that you might look at for inspiration.

Most plants will appreciate a more nutrient rich substrate (but this can also consume a lot of your budget) so consider a commercial product such as Tropica Growth Substrate or mineralized soils ( My 120L Soil tank ) layered beneath sand/gravel (you might also use an Aqua Soil in specific areas).

The "dry-start" method can be very useful for propagating young plants
This journal has nice clear photos showing the level of plants that have been used from the outset
This journal shows how you can use the DSM to propagate plants
You might start stem plants as "Wabi-Kusa" - perhaps do some research in the Emersed Growing forum, there are some very simple sets up for propagating (a limited plant budget really benefits from this methodology, especially with a big tank to fill)

Obviously this rescape business is much simpler if you don't have fish to worry about - are you willing/able to trade in your current fish for future livestock credit at lfs? (some shops will also "board" fish for very reasonable fees)
- if not, then set up a large bin to house fish while rescaping (you can run the filter on this bin), if fish are crowded into a much smaller area (than your tank) keep conditions on the cool side & very dim, feed sparingly etc (note that most fish can easily go a few days without food - without any adverse effects)
Setting up the rescape without fish means that plants can be established/settled without concerns over fish uprooting/nibbling on new growth etc.
(note that angelfish can do very well in outdoor ponds IF temperatures are suitable)

For your current crypts, trim back roots & leafs & most should transition to the new scape, tidy any melted leafs & then wait patiently for new growth (crypts are quite difficult to actually "kill")

When establishing the new plants (especially if they are TC), you might consider lowering the water level in your tank (depending on filters & set up this is easy - or not ;)) as this will significantly increase light intensity while establishing plants, also better surface area:volume for CO2 exchange from air; if you choose this method, just slowly return water levels to normal over a few weeks once plants are growing well.

I believe that 54w T5 is a 46inch bulb set over a 60inch tank, so plan on very low light plants in these shade areas (or just open sand), a very good reflector will benefit.
 
I'm in the UK so no way I'd risk housing Angelfish outdoors. The fish will go into large bins with the filters and heaters running in them as I've done before. The fish will go back into the tank at the end of the day as I don't have the space for large tubs or another tank to house them for more than a few hours and bins full of water with young children about are too much of a risk.

I've had the tank for over 4 years and ran it successfully as high tech/high light with lots of stem plants for well over a year so I have a co2 system, glassware, etc I just don't want to go down that route. I turned the Co2 off, reduced the light levels and moved to easy plants for a variety of reasons such as time needed to maintain a big tank, hassle of getting good co2 flow in such a big body of water (there was always somewhere that wasn't getting enough co2) and an injury that made lifting the lid off a nightmare. I just can't dedicate the time as a part-time student with a part-time job and a young family.

The tank has manado with Aqua soil under it and root tabs and I've been dosing EI from the start. I do not want to invest in another substrate. I'd just need too much of it. The substrate will be cleaned in the tank with a hose pumping water in and pumps taking it back out until the water is clear. I'll reuse it with some fresh Aquasoil and ferts in the base layer and I'll do a daily water change for the first week or so. It is what I did last time.

I want a variety of crypts (limited by what I can find), stones and wood and my budget may only be £150 tops (not the £2k the tank, plants substrate and kit cost 1st time round - see note about student with a young family :eek:) ). I have a smaller 30l tank with led lighting that I could setup with Co2 to grow plants on initially. A small-scale high-tech tank I can cope with but is there any point if they just melt when they move to low light/low tech? Maybe I'll try the lower water levels in the little tank


The main planted area will be the centre of the tank with low light plants, if any, at the edges. I currently grow anubias and crypts at the ends of the tank without a problem

Worst case I might be able to get another pair of t5s in there to replace the ballast that failed at Christmas. Did consider LEDs for a bit but I'd rather have new plants and hard scape
 
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I wasn't certain from your initial post if you were looking at mainly TC crypts or various crypts plus assorted TC "easy" plants ... given the issues with stem plants floating off the substrate & not wanting to change the substrate much, I think that stem plants done in the "Wabi-Kusa" style would be the method of choice IF you'd like some stem plants
(if you look at Amano setting up large tanks, WK stems are often used)
These can be made cheaply from trimmings or beginning with a few pots or TC cups & don't require much in the way of infrastructure

Rather than running the small tank as a high-tech grow out, I'd use it for emerse culture: for every TC crypt etc that you add to the big tank, remove a few stems to the 30l - this way you'll have back up's for any that completely disappear in the big tank - you should also get "pot" sized plants rather more quickly than their submersed counterparts.
You might also begin "project propagation" soon & have that much more plant mass available for the Easter makeover

Even though lighting is fairly low in the big tank, I'd still set it up with low levels of CO2 to help transition the TC plants, also they will be able to grow "more" with the readily available CO2 ... after 4-6 weeks or perhaps 10-12 weeks (depending on growth), plants should be well established & you can gradually reduce the CO2 - you may still see some "melt" but plants will have good reserves with which to recover
I suspect the added CO2 will benefit the plants more than adding another set of T5
Depending on tank location, diffuse sunlight for a couple hours may benefit plants.

That is really the main difference between TC & pot plants - the age & maturity of the plant which translates into "reserves"
Most TC cups have higher stem counts per unit, so emerse propagation will generate loads of plants
You could also get some mosses growing on wood/stone - these will add textural interest & colors to the scape (lava stone is excellent as it's rough surface provides good anchoring for the various plants & it's light enough to be easily moved about the tank)


stones and wood
Any chance you can look for "free" materials, also look to landscape shops or stone suppliers for interesting rocks (it helps if you've some skills at rock breaking ;))
 
(it helps if you've some skills at rock breaking ;))[/QUOTE]

I have a husband with a chisel and club hammer. ;)

I'm intending to get the stones from a garden centre rather than an aquatics shop and we have a huge forest on the doorstep but it is mainly pine so would have to be careful to find hardwood
 
Thank you for all the advice. I bought a pot of Sagittaria Subulata to see what I would be dealing with before taking the plunge and buying a lot. I was amazed at size of the plantlets. Larger than I expected and I got just under 50 in a single pot for 3.50. Bargain! I like the gel. So much easier to get rid of than rock wool. They are in the main tank. Going to see what happens now.
 
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